Reel Talk & Banter
Ever wanted to just sit around and make fun of an old movie with your friends? That's exactly what Reel Talk & Banter is all about. Join best friends Omari Williams and Jay Richardson as they rewatch movies that came out at least a decade ago. It's a mix of a film review and a comedy roast, where they discuss everything from the plot to the terrible acting, and even if the film has stood the test of time. Get ready to laugh and hear some hot takes on your favorite (and least favorite) classic films.
Reel Talk & Banter
Great Score, Mid Colonel, Maximum Denzel: Glory (1989)
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The cannon smoke hasn’t cleared on Glory, and maybe that’s the point. We’re diving back into the 54th Massachusetts to ask a simple but uncomfortable question: whose story does the film truly tell? From Denzel Washington’s searing turn as Tripp to James Horner’s towering score that practically carries scenes on its back, this conversation pulls apart the craft, the history, and the narrative choices that shaped a generation’s understanding of Black soldiers in the Civil War.
We break down the big beats: why the film frames Colonel Shaw’s letters as our guide and what gets lost when the camera looks up instead of within; how the Fort Wagner charge plays as doomed valor and whether the “volunteering” rings true; and the moments that still sting, like pay inequity that garnished Black soldiers’ wages down to almost nothing. We draw clean lines to the record—earlier Black regiments like the First Kansas, a 54th composed largely of free Northern men, and Confederate threats of execution or enslavement—and show how those details sharpen, not shrink, the 54th’s courage.
Along the way, we celebrate what soars. The campfire scene folds testimony, rhythm, and resolve into a living portrait of brotherhood. Morgan Freeman’s steady gravity, Andre Braugher’s poised vulnerability, and Denzel’s single tear in the flogging sequence remind us why performances become canon. And Horner’s music? It’s the kind of scoring that elevates a film’s pulse while honoring its grief.
If you’ve only seen Glory in a classroom, this is your permission to rewatch with a fuller lens. If you’ve never seen it, consider this your map: expect beauty, conflict, and questions that echo forward—about patriotism, power, and who gets to be at the center of American memory. Listen, share with a friend, and tell us: should Glory have centered the soldiers’ story? And while you’re here, follow the show, leave a review, and join us for our Black History Month run of four straight episodes featuring Black films and filmmakers.
Follow us on the following social media platforms or email us at reeltalkbanter@gmail.com!
Back From Break And Big News
SPEAKER_05Hello and welcome to the Real Talk and Bancher Podcast, the movie podcast where we discuss and review films that are at least a decade old. I'm Amari Williams.
SPEAKER_03And I'm Jay Richardson.
SPEAKER_05And we are back from a little hiatus. Um, took a little time for the holidays. We missed you all, but we are so excited to be back. How were your holidays?
SPEAKER_03Mine uh were excellente excellente.
SPEAKER_05Excellente. Okay. Did you learn some Spanish over the holidays?
SPEAKER_03Exactly what I did. I learned that word. Alright. And um that's it. That's all I did. That was that's it. That's all I got. What about you, sir? What about you? Something something big happened for you, huh?
SPEAKER_05Yes, yes, yes. My daughter was born. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So now I have I'm a father of two. A girl dad, yep. Father of two. Come on now. Let's get it.
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna be honest.
SPEAKER_05I've already you know, we grew up together.
SPEAKER_03I feel like I always pictured you as like an uncle, but never a dad. I don't know why. I don't know why. I don't know why. Like, like conceptually, it totally makes sense that you have a bunch of freaking kids here conceptually, but I have two, not a bunch of things. I'm just saying I'm expecting at least five by the time you're done, but no big deal. Either way, oh my gosh. Um but I don't know. I just always saw he's like the cool uncle, but you know, that's just me.
SPEAKER_05Oh, well, hey. Oh, man, no. Now you I've always I feel like I've always known I was gonna be a dad. Like that's like what's gonna happen, you know. So here I am. Self-fulfilling prophecy. Whoa. I was gonna say something. It's gonna be really dirty. I don't wanna do that. Like anyway, my mom listens to the show. So we are back. Uh, we have uh a little bit of a special treat for um those followers. Um the few people that follow us, you know.
Black History Month Programming Plan
SPEAKER_05We normally do uh drops every other week, but seeing as it is Black History Month, uh two episodes would not cut it. So we're gonna do four straight episodes, uh, four Fridays in a row, all black black films. Um some of them might be historical, some of them may just be uh part of the culture, just celebrating black actors um and directors. So we are very excited to bring that to y'all. And next week's episode, we actually have special guests from the Rally and Deli podcast. We will be doing a collaboration episode with them, two episodes, one in our feed and one in their feed. So please check that out. We have some big things in store for y'all for this month and hopefully for the whole of 2026. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Alright.
SPEAKER_05So our first movie was your selection, so I'll let you introduce the movie. Yeah, let's get into it.
SPEAKER_02All right, let's do it. Let's do it to it.
Introducing Glory And First Impressions
SPEAKER_03So, today, ladies and gentlemen, and everyone else.
SPEAKER_01Today, we're gonna be talking about glory. Glory. Not just a war movie.
SPEAKER_04Hallelujah!
SPEAKER_01Okay. Is that it?
SPEAKER_03That was it.
SPEAKER_04That was it.
SPEAKER_03Uh Glory. Not just a war movie, not just a Civil War movie. Uh, this is kind of a movie that forced America to remember something they spent a long time ignoring. That black Americans didn't just benefit from emancipation, they fought for it, right? So uh I think a lot of folks saw this in school, maybe history class or something on a teacher day. Um, I actually didn't. I don't know if I skipped that day. I've actually never seen Glory. Okay. This is my first take of it. Oh my god. I never saw it. Really? Never saw it. This would be interesting. Yep.
SPEAKER_05I think I've seen it twice before now, but both times was as a kid. Both times may have been in school, but I do remember watching it in school for sure. And I'm like, this is not for kids. I'm sorry. Like, what is it?
SPEAKER_01Uh gory.
SPEAKER_05Oh my god. Yeah. Oh my god. But hey, they also showed us and Amistad. Yep, I was like Amistad. Yep, and Amastad. Like, holy shit, Amistad is rough.
SPEAKER_03I mean, roots is obviously rough too, but Amistad is rough.
SPEAKER_05So I doubt they show it. Hey, I doubt they're not even showing us stuff these days. These kids are so soft these days. You can't show them this crap. But they were giving us all the trauma back then. My God.
SPEAKER_03But I mean, you know, hey, I think, I mean, and you know, say what you will for a Caribbean uh the education assessment in the Caribbean, which isn't great at all. Um, I think we all benefited from um not just the US history, but the Caribbean history, which obviously includes uh slavery. So like a lot of things people are learning about, we we knew about because it was part of our curriculum to not just learn Caribbean, uh, I'm sorry, uh US history because we're uh we're from the Virgin Islands, US Virgin Islands, so that was part of the curriculum, but also the Caribbean um history and everything that they went through. So kudos for that and you know, line uh setting us up well for for I guess knowledge and not being like, what the hell? I never did that.
SPEAKER_05Like, oh, you really like reduce our our our level of ignorance by a little bit.
SPEAKER_03A little, a tiny, tiny bit for sure. Yeah. There's also a ton of stuff that you you still don't know about unless you take a uh a real interest in things. So um, so yeah, so this is my first time uh watching this movie. Um we have Edward I'm sorry, for the director we have Edward Zwick, right? Zwick, is that how you say that? I think so. Um you have James Horner, um music and score. Uh and then we have our main characters. We have uh Colonel Shaw, played by Matthew Broderick, whose performance
School Screenings, Trauma, And Context
SPEAKER_03I could have done without, but whatever. You have Tripp.
SPEAKER_05Oh my god. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03I can't wait to discuss that. We have Trip played by Denzel Washington, and we all know this is his first Oscar win, so we'll get into that a little bit. You have uh Sergeant Rollins, uh played by Morgan Freeman, who also very strong performance, and you know, they could have gone either or, but I I could tell why uh Denzel got the nod for it. And then you have um uh uh what he I think it was a private, Private Thomas, played by Andre Barr. Yes, Andre Brown, uh, which excellent. I mean, yeah, excellent actor, of course, gone too soon. Um, you know, Brooklyn 99 for sure. Um but um 999 for sure. Um uh yeah, and then you had um uh Major Forbes played by uh Carrie Ellis, uh, which I actually enjoyed his performance a lot better than Matthew Broughton. But we will get into that. So uh speaking of, and we always like to to throw little um I would say little quizzes or trivia at each other when we can. So speaking of this, we have um we have James Horner here, um, who did the score. And this is I'm ready for this. Oh dang, you already know what I'm gonna ask.
SPEAKER_05I don't know what you're gonna ask, but I feel like I'm ready for it because I went down a a small James Horner rabbit hole. But let's see if you're gonna be able to do that.
SPEAKER_03Damn!
SPEAKER_05I don't know. Maybe not.
SPEAKER_03No, first I was just I was just gonna comment on this. The music on like in certain parts superseded the movie in so many different ways. So um shout out to him. But also, James Horner uh didn't win an Oscar for this, but he did win an Oscar for an original um song in what 1997 movie and what song?
SPEAKER_05Oh gosh. Um 1997. 1997.
SPEAKER_03This uh this movie, I believe it might still hold as uh uh one of the or if it's either one of or the most Oscar wins. So very popular movie uh in 1997. Um there's a very particular song for this movie that's you know, there's you know, if you've never seen it, you know this song. And James Horner actually wrote the score for this and this particular song.
SPEAKER_05You know what? Um information overload. I I was so surprised to see how much things James Horner had um scored by it's just it's so much. He's done a lot. I just remember being like, yeah, I'm like, oh my gosh, like this guy, he's the man.
SPEAKER_03I didn't know him, I didn't know him at all. So I so I not by name, by name, right? Right by name, but I know his music, but yeah, I didn't know him by name either. So obviously in my research for the movie, I kind of did the same thing, did the the rabbit hole. I was like, oh shit, you did a lot, and that's why I came across this little tip. I was like, oh, let me this is my question, right here. Because you're the music guy, so what is it? You know?
SPEAKER_05I know. Um 1997. This is give me some hints, give me some clues. This is it's uh of course it's a live action movie, right?
SPEAKER_03Uh yeah, yeah, this is a live action movie. Live action movie.
SPEAKER_05Um genre. Give me a genre or something.
SPEAKER_03You know what? I don't even know what to call this. It was a tragedy, it was a it was a drama slash rom-com. So um uh the singer is Canadian.
SPEAKER_05No, I'm blanking. What's what's the answer?
SPEAKER_01Yo he forgot that.
SPEAKER_00I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Um My Heart Will Go on.
SPEAKER_05My Heart Little Titanic.
SPEAKER_03Yes, 1997
Credits Check: Zwick, Horner, Cast
SPEAKER_03James Cameron, uh Titanic, and yes, uh James Horner. I don't know if this was his first time.
SPEAKER_05He has a couple um win for this one James Cameron collabs because he did Avatar as well. Avatar as well, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes, his his um filmography, his score uh discography? What am I trying to say?
SPEAKER_03His uh his body of work. Yeah, let's go for it.
SPEAKER_05Massive. Yeah. I was very surprised. Yeah, Titanic. That's a good one, that's a good pull.
SPEAKER_03Alright, so uh let's get into it a little bit more. So, like I said, we got a huge ensemble of folks who are well known at that point, um, with Denzel Washington, Morgan Freeman. Maybe I'm not sure if Andre Brower was well very well known at that point, but yeah, Matthew Broderick.
SPEAKER_05Oh, I don't think he was.
SPEAKER_03And they're telling the story of the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry, which is the first all black regiment uh raised in the North during the Civil War. You know what?
SPEAKER_05It's not the first. So I did some so my Civil War um history knowledge is not very good, but and I know the movie is pushing it as the first, but I came across that that technically wasn't the first. There was this infantry, um the first Kansas Colored Infantry Regiment was technically first. Did you see that at all?
SPEAKER_03No, I didn't see that.
SPEAKER_05Uh it's just the 54th, I think, was most notable because of I guess some of their accomplishments and because that after their the success of that regiment inspired so many more um black regiments to be created, you know. So I I guess this one was more impact impactful, influential, but they're technically not the first.
SPEAKER_02Oh, look at you. Look at you.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alright, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I I just did a quick Wikipedia. That's how I passed college. So yeah, it must be true. It must be true.
SPEAKER_05Hey, right, yeah. Yes. I did not read any dissertations about this. Yeah, yeah. Um, I did not do um, you know, any scholarly articles, but my very limited research tells me that they were the second one.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, okay. Um, like you have to well, when you said the first, I thought about um Rosa Parts and Claudia Colvin, right? Um and how it, you know, it's very, you know, and nothing against Miss Rosa Parts at all. But obviously she she wasn't the first person. And I I actually bring this up because Claudia Colvin was just passed actually as well. But she was technically the first person to not give up her seat. Um but they didn't want to push her narrative because she was she was young, I think she was 15 or so or something like that. She was dark skinned, a little bit more dark
The Titanic Trivia Detour
SPEAKER_03skinned. I believe she was pregnant at the time or so, um, or really close to it. Um, but yeah, they didn't they didn't feel like she'd be a good face for the civil rights movement.
SPEAKER_05So and I knew that part of it, but I didn't know a lot about her details and background. But I did know, I did know Rosa Parks wasn't the first, and the reason she was chosen to be the face of that movement was just she was a better candidate, I guess, you know. Um, but along the same vein about being the first, um, more related to this whole Civil War stuff, did you did William Harvey Carney come up in your research?
SPEAKER_02No. What's up?
SPEAKER_05So he was a um uh African-American um soldier during the Civil War. He he received a medal of honor for saving the regimental color of the cover.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, the regimental color, yes, yes, yes, yes. Even though he was a good one.
SPEAKER_05So there was a little controversy because well, not controversy, right? But some people like to say he was the first to receive it. But technically, he did he didn't receive his medal until 1900. Yeah, but there were blacks that received the medal as early as I think 1965, but his actions was the first documented action that was medal worthy. Yeah, right. But for some reason, he didn't get it until like 37 years later.
SPEAKER_03I mean, some reason. I don't know why. I don't know. I I did read up on him, I didn't the name just messed up on me, but yeah, I remember he picked he picked his colors who was severely injured, but still dragged himself and the colors uh back to the federal line. So yeah.
SPEAKER_05Which um I guess his his like famous quote is um boy, it like it never hit the ground or something like that. Which um he said the old flag never touched the ground. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is hilarious because I read that after I watched Glory over.
SPEAKER_03It was just you straight up see this guy dragging. They might as well just roll in it. It was just on the ground. Every time I turned around, it was on the ground. I was like, this is crazy. I was like, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that was funny. That was funny.
SPEAKER_03Um but yeah, but the thing is, I mean, though Glory, you know, depicted a real uh regiment and also a real battle, they also took some liberties as well.
SPEAKER_05So um were any of the soldiers correct? I mean, real, real people, aside from Shaw?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there were
The 54th And The Real “Firsts”
SPEAKER_03some real people.
SPEAKER_05But any of the black soldiers.
SPEAKER_03No, none of them were real, no.
SPEAKER_05Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_03None of them were real. They were like close to the you know, off of a counter.
SPEAKER_05But they weren't actual like people.
SPEAKER_03Okay, which is weird.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so we started on the movie, um, and I have to be annoyed, I have to be honest. Uh, Matthew Broderick's voiceover annoyed me. And I was I actually tuned out for a good portion of it. I was like, well, whatever. Like, I didn't give a shit what he was saying to his mom. I was like, okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It really didn't do anything for me. I don't know. How how did you feel about it? Same.
SPEAKER_05I mean, I I listen, when I uh so I started preparing some notes before watching the movie. And the first thing that threw me was that Matthew Broderick had first billing on the movie.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And for some reason, I'm like, this is a Denzel movie, you know? And it's not. He's a supporting, he's a supporting character, you know? And again, I hadn't watched it since I was a child, so Denzel is a goat, right? So I just um associated glory with Denzel. So when I saw Matthew Brodock was top billing, I was like, hmm, that's that's interesting. And then the movie started, and there's this voiceover thing, and I mean I did not care for anything Matthew Brodock was doing in this movie.
SPEAKER_03Oh, but when I said it earlier, you was like, ah, come on.
SPEAKER_05No, oh, no, no, no, no, no. I was agreeing with you. I was just fine with it. No, no, oh no, I was agreeing because I was just um excited to talk to you about it because that was my one of my biggest takeaways from this movie, and I didn't know you hadn't seen it before, but I really wanted to talk to you about this specific thing, which is why did they decide to tell this movie from Matthew Broderick's point of view, from from Colonel Shaw's point of view? To me, as good as this movie is and everything, it really suffered because of that. And uh definitely being an adult, not like an adult, you know, and just all we've gone through just in modern recent history and taken into the actual history of of blacks in in America and everything. I feel like it was a missed opportunity to make this movie a 54th um Massachusetts Infantry Regiment movie. Like I feel like that's what it should have been. I think that's what it wanted to be. Yeah, but it the there was too much of Shaw, you know? Like we talked, you mentioned Morgan Freeman. Morgan Freeman barely had any roles lines, like Barry did a lot in the movie, but everything he did was so impactful. I was like, oh yeah, Morgan Freeman, you know? And I just I had rather seen these groups of men bonding with each other, going through their trials and tribulations, going through like learning how to become soldiers, just realizing that you know they're free kind of now, or they're fighting for their freedom. Like, all that shit is way more interesting than homeboy sending fucking letters to his mom being like, Hey Ma, I'm in charge of this army. Like, I don't give a shit, dog. And when it got to the end, and he's like leading his charge, and um spoiler alert, you know, he gets shot or whatever. I felt nothing. I felt nothing when he got killed. I was like, Alright,
Voiceover, POV, And Shaw Problems
SPEAKER_05you know, whatever. So I I feel like the movie suffered a lot by them deciding to focus on Shaw and by giving Matthew Broderick the the lead in this movie.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he um I mean it's 1989, right? Matthew Broderick is obviously very popular with first viewers' day off and things like that, so I don't I don't think he had the chops for it to like actually bring about the emotional capacity needed to actually feel something for him. He was just a white dude who was there and he just didn't have it. I mean, I'm nothing against Matthew Broderick. I mean, he's he's alright, I guess. I don't know. But he just didn't have it. It it definitely needed someone more seasoned or just generally better, but you know, hey.
SPEAKER_05Um so so is your argument not that the shark character should have been reduced? Is your argument that they should have casted it better?
SPEAKER_03Well, if so you could go either or, either it needed to be from the point of view of the men in the Action 54 regiment, like the infantry men, or if it was going to be told from that standpoint, then it needed to be told from a stronger voice. Cast it better. Yeah. Um and there needed to be some sort of growth. There was like zero growth for real, like not just nothing.
SPEAKER_05I didn't fucking whip the shit out of Denzel's character, and then and then I don't know. I guess his growth was he got them shoes like in the next scene or some shit. But I'm like, dude, like I don't see you coming to I don't know, man. I was like, am I supposed to like this guy? Like I mean, he did I don't know behind closed doors, like advocate for his fucking infantry and stuff, his men, but yeah, I just I don't know, man. I I was having a hard Time being like just like giving a shit about this guy, and um, and then he he volunteered them. This is a change from history. He volunteered them to be an avant guard to lead that the the march um Fort Wagner was a Synt Warden, Fort Fort Fort Warden Wagner, Fort Wagner. But I I think they were assigned to do that, right? Like they weren't. I don't know. I didn't look up.
SPEAKER_03I didn't look up if it was if he rose his hand or if you know this was like just they're part of the regiment, they had to go. I mean, either way, they went. But I thought they were gonna come up with some ingenious plan that only a person of color who had been in that scenario would have known, like, oh, there's a secret tunnel way or whatever, and we will sneak up behind them. And I don't know. I was giving them way more credit than actually was happening, I guess. Yeah, and then the end of that, but I was like, oh okay.
SPEAKER_05It was like we'll be the sacrificial lambs. I mean, so that being said, I thought it was shot really well then. Oh, hell yeah. The plan was dumb, but the scene was pretty awesome. Oh, that was very cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was cool. There was a lot of tension, and I'm like, who's gonna die, you know? Um but but yeah, you're right. It was a little anticlimactic.
SPEAKER_03Like, I I think and then also this is like the last 15, maybe 10, 15 minutes of the movie. It's like, okay. Correct. So, yeah, anyway, go ahead.
SPEAKER_05No, I was saying I I think if if it was more of they were like forced, like, hey, we're putting you know you and your nigga army in the front, and it's like, what the fuck, like, and it was like um something they didn't want to do, but we're gonna do it like honor and pride or something. Like if the movie played it that way, but instead they had Matthew Brodock be like, hey, we'll be the ones to do it. I'm like, are you trying to get everyone killed? That this is because they did say there's no the only way to access it is to just go directly straight through, you know. So it was always gonna be a suicide mission. So I feel like dramatically the tension would have been the the stakes would have felt higher, or it'd have felt more significant if they were ordered to go do this, you know, and and Matthew Brodock was like arguing that you know you're
Strategy, Fort Wagner, And Stakes
SPEAKER_05sacrificing these men and this, that, and the other, and then you know, they all stand with him in solidarity, saying, Hey, you know, like we're gonna do what we have to do, we're fighting for freedom and all that stuff. Like, that would have had a different vibe to it than just him being like, I'm gonna take these guys out here. No one asks, but I'll be the one to do it, you know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I don't know. Or yeah, yeah. Either it'd been yeah, it'd been more impactful. Either they come up with some like ingenious plan to like not have as many people die, or they are the like saving grace that pop up um to like save the rest of the company or the regiment or whatever.
SPEAKER_05So it'll be I mean they lost it in re-rived lots of battles.
SPEAKER_03It's horrible. That was a bad idea, and uh yeah, I saw that the fort I was just gonna say the same.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, they never were able to capture the fort.
SPEAKER_03So it's just there. But you know, Colonel Shaw has a base named after him, so in Joe in um South Carolina, so good for him.
SPEAKER_04Okay, alright. Well, hey, good stuff, I guess.
SPEAKER_03Um oh, another fun fact. Ooh, I got a number for you. So much of uh much of this, much of the scenes, especially like the not the war scenes, but um a lot of the like mmm, let's say the the scenes when officers are kind of react uh interacting with each other uh was shot in this very famous city in the south. Uh this same city um Forrest Gump was shot as well. The bench scene was also shot in this city. Do you know this city?
SPEAKER_05Oh, cool. Is it Savannah Georgia?
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah, Savannah, Georgia. Look at you.
SPEAKER_05That I um that was a guess, a shot in the dark. But um I sat I sat through the credits and I did see the listed uh Georgia was listed. I saw Florida as well. So that's why I guess Savannah Georgia. So I actually read through the credits.
SPEAKER_03Um I did not read through the credits. But yes, yes. I actually recently went to Savannah, Georgia. It's a very pretty place. Um I actually enjoyed it a lot. So all right, so another thing that kind of I think another thing that set me off immediately off of Matthew Broderick was the actually the first damn scene um when he was uh on the Battle of Antietam. And I guess he just fell asleep on the battlefield. I don't know what that was. I I didn't see him get hit, uh, aside from you know, he had a nick on his neck.
SPEAKER_05Oh shrapnel or something.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I saw the shrapnel, but I didn't see him like get hit in the back of the head or anything like that. Okay, he got knocked out. Man's look like he just laid down and fell asleep. And I was like, this is I think he was cowering.
SPEAKER_05I mean, hey, yeah, I I thought he was playing dead, right? That's what he was doing.
SPEAKER_02I don't know what that was.
SPEAKER_05That was my read on the situation.
SPEAKER_03I don't know what that was, but I mean he never got up though at some point. Like, it wasn't until and again, this is the movie. I don't know about the truth to like you know what actually happened, but it wasn't until Morgan Freeman's character like hit him with a shuffle or sh uh shovel that it was like and he like kind of like stirred. So I was like, what was happening there?
SPEAKER_05I guess I should have dug a little bit more in this like Civil War history stuff because we don't know how much of it is Hollywood and you know, actual true accounts, but to my interpretation from the movie is that Shaw pussied out in battle, so I guess that's his growth, right? If you're looking for a um an arc for you, is in a battle of Antioch, he was a cowering fool running up to people to lead in a charge. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Fine, fine, fine, fine. I can
Denzel Arrives And Dominates
SPEAKER_03care about it, though. But yeah, I didn't I didn't know what the hell that was. I mean, but he made colonel because he was a captain at that point, so he made colonel, so okay.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but wasn't his dad like some big dog too or something? Oh yeah, for sure. But I mean like politically or something like that.
SPEAKER_03Either way, he still made he still made colonel, so we'll we'll give it to him. Either way, so we're in that so I'm setting the scene for the tents. We're in the tenth scene, and I'm like, there's these huge big dogs right now, and Denzel immediately stealing the scene. Like, I was just prone to him immediately.
SPEAKER_05100%.
SPEAKER_03But I also was like 100%. Like, I don't know, I don't know how to I kind of put him in this like kind of anti-hero type of role he was in. It was like, you you did you feel that too?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. I I I was surprised to see how antagonistic he was to his fellow infantryman. Right. Um it it just I just wanted more Denzel in the movie. I mean he's a supporting he's a supporting actor, so I guess he was always gonna be have a limited role. But because my I I noted it took 18 minutes for us to see Denzel, you know? But again, it's not a Denzel movie. I know let it go. I couldn't. It was so because as he showed up, it was like, fuck yeah, Denzel is here, you know. Um, so I was surprised that he was so antagonistic to towards those guys, which is why I would have loved to see that growth and arc from him being like um, you know, Effie House, you know, ninjas and and grow into being like, you know, y'all a family, right? And you know, I'll fight and die for y'all. Like that. That's a way more interesting story. He said, he said, he said in a title, he was like, he's like, dummies and feel hands, ain't that a bitch?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he was like, oh, you know he's mute, right? He's like, mute, you can't talk. Oh, Jesus.
SPEAKER_05Oh my gosh. That's too fast.
SPEAKER_03Oh my god. Um, so we have Denzel Washington and his trip. We, you know, we can you can never say you can never say enough about Denzel Washington. It is why Denzel Washington is Denzel Washington. And um, obviously, as we mentioned, he he did win our Oscar for this role, his first one. And I 100% believe that he deserved every bit of it. And I think that I think it was a toss-up between Morgan Freeman. I think the problem is one of the things you said, Morgan Freeman just didn't have enough lines when he was there. It was like, oh yes, this Morgan Freeman, and this is what he was, but he just didn't have it um the way Dante had it. But also, I think what also tipped it off was of course um the uh the whipping scene or frogging scene. Frogging? Yes, flogging? Uh flogging. Frogging, flogging, thank you. I said frogging. Like were they jumping around? What the fuck? The flogging scene, thank you. Um, in which uh so to to
The Flogging Scene And Its Meaning
SPEAKER_03set the scene, Denzel at this point they're marching in e they're they're marching around either barefoot or with horrible kind of you know, essentially cloth for shoes. Denzel's feet are completely torn up. Um he starts to set the scene as if he just wants food, but it kind of comes out that he actually wants to try to get a pair or steal a pair of actual shoes because his feet are completely torn up. So Denzel makes a plan to run away to a farm that's about a mile or so away. They catch him, of course, he comes back, and we have a very emotional scene in which uh the Scottish dude whose name I I don't know if I don't know if he was a real guy, actually. I don't remember. Um, but he was somebody. The Scottish dude say, hey, this is the punishment for uh you know desertion, they have to be flogged. Um then we have um uh frauder coming up and saying, Hey, uh, we probably shouldn't do that, considering you know, some of these men have been slaves or were slaves or you know, or whatever. So we probably shouldn't do that. And he was like, ah, don't question me. This is Broadway. So don't question me, don't question my authority. And then uh he was like, Oh, whatever you say, massa. Well, I'll go around down to the island. I was dying. Like, I I love that part.
SPEAKER_01I was like, whoa, buddy, easy. I love that part.
SPEAKER_05I get your points, but I was like, you that's a bit much, but I yeah, I got what he was, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that was that was all good. You know, at first, um, I didn't like that was Elvis' character you're talking about, right?
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_05Uh Forbes, yeah. At first I didn't care for him, and then I like I really enjoyed what he was doing, you know. I think I just kind of misread him early on. Yes, no, I agree with that.
SPEAKER_03But that was I agree with that.
SPEAKER_05Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because in the beginning, I thought he was gonna be the one to like not see them as people and be kind of like, whatever, you know, they don't reserve here or whatever, but almost immediately it was flipped, and you know, uh Broderick or or Colonel Shaw was that was jarring for me. Yeah, it was weird, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Because because Shaw's like, oh, me and Thomas are friends, we're childhood friends, take it easy on him, or whatever. I don't know. I guess I don't know, man. I I guess Thomas is one of the good ones, right? Because he speaks good, you know, and all that stuff.
SPEAKER_03That's what he's representing. So uh but now we continue on with the the part of the story, and we have uh Denzel who immediately rips his shirt off and reveals uh healed uh scars of past whippings. And there were quite a few latches there. Like it was it was very jarring to see um that. But he didn't he didn't waver, he didn't blink, he took a shirt off, he stared down Colonel Shaw every single latch, didn't didn't wince, didn't um, you know, didn't turn away, didn't break down. First of all, that was that was a lot of freaking like whips or latches. It was like why? I thought they were gonna do like five three. I thought three was a decent number. I'm like, whatever. Then they hit 10. I was like, oh, we're still going. This is kind of weird. Like, okay.
SPEAKER_05I I counted until the scene went. Yeah, the scene went dark. The scene changed. Yeah, so we don't even know how much times he got whipped, but there were 20 on screen. I was like, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that was kind of weird.
SPEAKER_05You're not gonna stop this dude? Yeah, I don't know why. Yeah, I didn't do that.
SPEAKER_03That was kind of weird. Um, but we had a single single tier from uh uh Denzel.
SPEAKER_05I I took that it was I took it was because of the pain. Um I I mean we saw how much times Denzel's uh uh trip is his that was private trip, how much times Trip has had been whipped throughout his life, so he's no stranger to that. So I don't think um he would find it hard to believe that because I think he came in for being like just all these white men are the same, you know. Um and maybe he got that confirmation bias where it's like, yeah, this is this is exactly what you are, this is exactly what all of you are. So I I I think it was more of the pain, and any realizations he had was just the confirmation that he already had in his mind that this dude is no better than you know his masters from when he was enslaved or or whatever.
SPEAKER_03Which, I mean, maybe and you know, pain is you know comes from different places. I'm not saying the the physical act of being whipped doesn't hurt. I'm sure I've never been whipped, I don't want to, but I'm sure it feels like ass. But you know, I think there was an emotional uh part of that as well, maybe part of that understanding of like, you know, maybe he was starting to buy in, and then he's like, damn, I let myself like think about it for a second, but yeah, they're just they're the same people. Yeah, I got you.
SPEAKER_00I got you.
SPEAKER_03Maybe, maybe I'm swinging for the fences, I don't know. Ah, fences, Denzel.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, can we just can we do the rest of the podcast and Denzel punch?
SPEAKER_03Um, but yeah, I think that was a very powerful scene there. Um, you know.
SPEAKER_05Before before we continue, right? Because we were we're I wanna if we if you don't mind us going back just for a quick second to explore um because you you questioned like what if the role was casted better. Um so I have a list of actors who are popular, white male actors in yeah, who were popular in the 80s, right? So Matthew Broderick is 63 years old right
Casting What-Ifs For Colonel Shaw
SPEAKER_05now. So I found people that are within you know five or so years of his age, right? They would have been popular at that time. So options are so I'm gonna I'm gonna remove some obvious exception like like Rob Lowe, for example. That's this is not a thing, something for Rob Lowe to do. Right. Um, I don't know how you feel about Rob Lowe, but I love Rob Lowe. He's hilarious, but this is not for him, right? But uh, you do you know Anthony Michael Hall?
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_05He's a little bit younger, so he he was uh child uh teen star stuff. Yeah. Um Kevin Bacon to me is the most like that stands out. That what was Kevin Bacon doing at the time? He's probably fucking busy, but Kevin Bacon was a bit of a people doing fucking tremors.
SPEAKER_00Like, I don't know about that.
SPEAKER_05Uh you were absolutely right. Tremors was 1990. Hell yeah. Hey, I love Tremors, let me be honest. That's why I have Tremors. I actually haven't seen Tremors. I actually haven't seen Tremors.
SPEAKER_03I feel like he was doing Tremors. Yeah, we're gonna have to. Uh we got who else was so that's why.
SPEAKER_05Um, you got Matt Dillon.
SPEAKER_03Matt Dillon?
SPEAKER_05Matt Dillon. He he was in There's something about Mary.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um I can't see him there either. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_05Probably not, yeah. Uh Tom Cruise, he'd have been just coming off of Top Gun. Top Gun was in 1986. So Tom Cruise was around. Um he he might have swallowed up that whole movie. I don't know. Tom Cruise is such a a shining star. Like he I don't know. I don't know. He may have changed, but I don't he would have been better. I think he would have been better than than Broderick, though.
SPEAKER_03Um yeah, I mean, I yeah, I think generally speaking, Tom Cruise is a better actor than Matthew Broderick.
SPEAKER_05Well, yeah. Um but would that have fit I don't know if I don't know if he did Rain Man in 1988. Yeah. Um definitely not Michael J. Fox. Michael J. Fox was around that time too. I like Michael J. Fox, but that's not for him. Um Judd Nelson, who was in New Jack City. That we're going to record next week. Um, he was the white cop in um um that was um Ice T's partner.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't know anything about him besides that role, so I can't even know anything about him for real.
SPEAKER_05And then you you also have Johnny Depp.
SPEAKER_03I could see Johnny Depp. Like I don't know, he was strange because I think he's coming off with scissor hands right now, so.
SPEAKER_05Or yeah, most likely. Uh okay, how about uh how about John Cusack?
SPEAKER_03John Cusack is good. John Cusack is good. I could I uh Dark Right? I could I could I could I could eat that one. I could do John Cusack. I could see John Cusak. Yeah, yeah, I could see him.
SPEAKER_05Ah shit. He was doing a movie called Say Anything in 1989, also. So maybe all these all these guys were just busy, probably.
SPEAKER_03Maybe they were like, Say again? I was like, I don't know, uh I don't know say anything.
SPEAKER_05I don't know that one, but uh no, I don't know it either, yeah.
SPEAKER_03But uh yeah, maybe they were just busy, maybe they wanted somebody else and they just they're like, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Because with Johnny Johnny Depp, Edward Scissors Hand was in 1990, so it could have been filming around the same time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so yeah, so maybe no one else was available, but I I think I think John Cusack could have been way better. I think uh Kevin Bacon obviously would have been um would have been way better.
Antietam, Cowardice, And Arc
SPEAKER_05Kevin Bacon would have been cool. Um Cruise, of course, yeah. Tom Cruise, yeah. Tom Cruise, of course, yeah. But the rest of these guys are either like comedic actors or they just don't have that thing and they're all busy. So anyway, I just wanted to explore that really quick to see what our other options, like what a different movie would have looked like with someone else in the role.
SPEAKER_03Uh okay, so we have the uh flogging of Denzel Washington happening, um, and they're making all the men watch, which is also like, what the hell was that? Like, you have to know who these people are and where they're coming from. And then he kind of complains and talks about oh, he can't connect to them. And I was like, Well, duh, are you bothering to try at all?
SPEAKER_05Listen, I'm like, he he he ran the he risked losing his whole army, you know, because of that. Yeah. Like, like they they already weren't having the best time with the the when I saw Denzel's feet, I feel like such a jackass for complaining about my feet hurting after a six hour or eight hour uh security shift. I'm like, are you kidding me right now? Like his feet were all torn up, you know, and and bruised and lose them, to be honest.
SPEAKER_03Like they were really bad. I know. Like, I'm supposed to infection inside it and he didn't lose his feet, like how bad they looked in the freaking 1800s?
SPEAKER_05Like, get the hell out of here. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But you know, he was still marching.
SPEAKER_05Do you think they cut some scenes with Denzel like trying to fight some of those um the officers or something? Or because there was a lot of times where Denzel was just like side-eyeing these guys, and I'm like, is he about to is he about to fucking like pop off on these dudes?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he was definitely.
SPEAKER_05But nothing ever really came of that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. In the army in the military, in the army, it's so it's so clear-cut like who the boss is. So even if you don't agree, it's just like you just gotta suck it up.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, they had that line about how um like how blacks were like uh best served for the military, or they were like better than like the whites or something. And I'm like, I'm like, he's saying that shit like it's a compliment, but that it was so gross.
SPEAKER_02I was like, it's a trauma response, is what that is.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, because what you're referring to is how they're able to fucking compartmentalize, you know, from all the fucking torture and uh, you know, um obscene conditions they were going through during slavery. So yeah, that was just I don't know, man. I don't know.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, yeah, I again, and I I did not again, I did not look up if Shaw actually said that or not, but that was just a major oversight on his part to like even kind of like try to celebrate that. It was like this is clearly, clearly a trauma response. Like, yeah, you could treat them like shit, but then they're laughing and jovial, like they're in the fields again. It's just like, I know, like why you where you think that comes from?
Pay Inequity And Policy Reality
SPEAKER_03Like where you think that came from. Like in the movie, most of them were like runaway slaves. Um but in real life, the entire regiment was actually made up of freemen um who had just decided to join from the north. So uh I think it was even more impactful the Confederate uh proclamation that came down that any uh any person of color that uh you know was caught wearing, you know. know, uh union colors or whatever, blues, uh would immediately put to death or enslaved. It was just like, oh damn. They really had because you know the real regiment, they were all free. So at that point, like to actually sign up for something like you might get caught and be dragged into slavery is like damn.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So when you said they were free, as if they were never enslaved?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05How?
SPEAKER_03They were from the north. There was free men.
SPEAKER_05Slavery wasn't abolished yet.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but some people some slaves uh you know bought their freedom in some way and then their children were then free.
SPEAKER_04Okay, okay, okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Either earned or bought their freedom or it was given to them by their you know master and then once they moved to the north then their children are then free or whatever.
SPEAKER_05Okay, I got you. I I did forget that um there were places where um blacks were gaining their freedom even before even before it became slavery outlawed.
SPEAKER_03That's why that's essentially even though they claim that is not the reason for the civil war that's what they were fighting for for the right the right to do what? The right to own black people. So there were you know in the north and some other parts there were there were free slaves there were free peop free men that were black.
SPEAKER_05So did they decided to plate instead that you guys were enslaved you're free but you might return to slavery if you do the war. So they they they spin spun that is what you're saying.
SPEAKER_03Which I don't know if it's worse. I don't know if it's you were a slave, you're free, now you might be a slave again versus you've never been a slave and now you will be but I don't know which one is worse.
SPEAKER_05Never been a slave but not so far removed that you don't know what slavery is like right so it's not that they can't like if someone tells us right now we might be a slave we'd be like what the fuck I don't want to be a slave but we don't really have anything to like draw from that you know we have people out here going to work calling it a fucking plantation and you get paid and shit for your job. You know like we have no frame of reference you know but whereas your your parents were you know um were slaves right enslaved and so you have firsthand like well I guess second hand but you know you're right up against the the the whole slaver versus freedom thing you can actually relate and be like I do not want to go oh yeah for sure I would rather die yeah for sure or or die for the or die for the cause you know versus just kind of sitting at home but I I did like that scene though with the whole proclamation that was that was a good scene.
SPEAKER_03Yeah I don't Mans was like oh how many of them left and Mans just stared at him I was like so you ain't gonna say nothing he turned a corner and everybody's there I was like you could have just said no one left but I guess it was more impactful to from the torn a corner when Denzel was being his anti-hero and his very kind of aggressive kind of like uh you know you guys are
Thomas’s Journey And Toughening
SPEAKER_03all house ninjas and all that stuff and you know you drinking the Kool-Aid and we you know they no different when Morgan Freeman buttoned the softest slap I ever seen I gasped I audibly gasped I'm like I was like why you hit that man with kitten gloves like that like that was crazy but it made me but he shut up though he didn't say another word but yeah yeah it was like the softest slowest slap I've ever seen oh my god it made me feel like was he was he not supposed to do that like was did it just did he just do it and he just rolled with it I didn't look I didn't look into it but it just didn't seem like it was like supposed to happen what do you think oh my gosh um nah that that that that just got a laugh from me um like I said Morgan Freeman because actually I feel like it took a while for Morgan Freeman to do anything you know he was just kind of like there for a while and then um every now and again he would interact and it's like that's why Morgan Freeman is like because at first why is Morgan Freeman in this and then you see why he's in this it's like he's like a steady hand you know um when when when they were in the that same 10 scene earlier and I think it was that 10 one of the 10th scenes and Morgan Freeman's trying to like tell Denzel cool out and what did he ask him he asked him are you a free man or a free woman or something what did he ask him yeah yeah when he first had come up with the idea that he wanted to go go to the to the uh that's what it was to run off yeah so it was a second he was like you better chill out like you're a free man or a free woman he was like my boy put his mask his hat down he's like whatever already I warned you do whatever you gotta do at that point hey Denzel was firing from the hip I was like damn like he does not fuck with any of these guys um but yeah so that the but those those interactions were were really good um can we talk a bit about Andre Brower's character we haven't really um spent too much time on him yeah we can hit him we can hit on him for sure he his was very interesting um with him and for this being his first movie role like wow right but him um being friends with Shaw and then immediately joining the the army right you know to fight for the cause yeah and and he was a free man you know he had never seen you know slavery or whatever and he got he got so he got rough the fuck up yeah that Scottish dude hates through this training and everything it felt like legit fate which they always say we don't hate you we're just trying to train you which nah that felt like something was wrong I think he was really I think he of course andre um brow's character uh private thomas he challenged he challenged what was expected of uh African Americans black people people of color whatever you want to use right now because he was educated he was from the north he dressed well he read well um he was friends with Thomas I'm sorry he was friends with uh Colonel Shah um they grew up together according to Colonel Shaw like what you know you have to imagine like Shaw's a big deal Shaw's family like he has front row seats to um Governor Andrew uh for the governor of Massachusetts uh Frederick Douglass um like hang out with Frederick Douglass yeah that was a nice cameo like like Frederick Douglass essentially pushed for a lot of these things pushed for the proclamation of uh emancipation and proclamation damn uh yeah emancipation proclamation push for the desegregation of armies and all these things so push for these regiments to exist so Frederick Douglass uh is a is a civil rights leader before you know the Martin Luther King civil rights leader and he had a front role cease people so if Shaw's if he knows Shaw his family must also be very well known very well connected as well um so he was kind of like the not expected person and I think uh not expected stereotypical black person so I think the the Irish dude kind of like took it out on him specifically for that reason.
SPEAKER_05It's
Orders, Pillaging, And Whiteness
SPEAKER_05hard to say um you're probably right you know it it I I think they there was there's an angle of it being that um Thomas came from more of a uh oh I don't want to say it's hard to say that any blacks had a pampered life or whatever in the fucking 1800s but um it could be that he was really trying to toughen him up and get him prepared for some of these things out here but it it's hard to it's just hard to separate and that's why racism is tricky right it's very hard to separate um someone's actions from like are you being racist or is is this the process you know for whatever's going on right now right or are you just being an asshole you're just a regular run in the mill asshole like it's so hard to fucking tell um and I mean it's fucking 1863 most if not all the white guys were racist in some form or fashion right even the dudes who that well even the dudes that were fighting in the union fighting for the freedom of black people are still treating them like less than yeah yeah right so I guess the question is well even though that guy is most definitely a racist because just be given the fucking time was his implicit biases and racism is that what was leading him to treat Thomas that way or not right so and then does that even matter right he's you know so it was it was just interesting seeing Thomas go through everything and and um persevere you know I I thought Thomas was done you know from like the first battle they fought you know oh he got shot um Thomas yeah um and then I thought he was gonna be the first one to get killed when they were making the the move on Fort Wagner you know and he actually made it pretty long in that so it it was it was just very interesting um and it's seeing him seeing his eyes get open to something that a Denzel character already knew which was yeah like you guys are you and Shaw you think you're friends or whatever but there's a limit to that friendship it's not unconditional friendship absolutely not yeah at the end of the day he's a white man you're a colored person right and that's that that barrier right there prevents um puts a limit on your friendship yeah period you know yeah so that that was imbalance of power what do you feel how did you feel and you know this would be this would be a tough question but I'm gonna ask you how would you feel slash what would you have done in the scenario the scene in which uh I don't remember the other colonel's name but the Arnold the other colonel who was also in charge of the other uh uh all black regiment who I think they call them the that's the dude with a mustache yeah the pilgrimage regiment or okay whatever the guy the people who are clearly uh just going and stealing stuff essentially is what they were doing um even from people who weren't you know against or you know what or weren't uh military folks or whatever so um in the scene uh the general or Colonel I think he's still a colonel the colonel gives the order to Matthew Bradick's uh character to first to his men to steal all you can essentially and then follow up with uh telling Matthew Broad uh Broderick's uh regiment or telling Matthew Broderick to tell his men to now set fire to this town that didn't seem like anybody was in there if they were they weren't doing anything like military related so how do you how did you feel in that scene and what what would you might have done if you were Matthew Broderick which is a rough question to ask but well yeah I don't know how you want me to answer that but you're how do you feel about it how about that tell me your feelings now that scene was actually very it was very puzzling for me and uh it could be because I was kind of like nodding off to oh shit Jesus Christ you got a new baby there's a four week old hair I said you're gonna knew your I gave it to you already you have a baby I leave your room man's asleep but no it it it was very it was very confusing to me honestly what was going on in that scene I really didn't um follow why that was happening um and what the
Flag, Patriotism, And Power
SPEAKER_05point of that was supposed to be so I would be interested in hearing your take on it because I remember watching like I was like what the hell is going on here like why why is this the action that's being taken here and I just I missed that part.
SPEAKER_03Yeah okay that's why I wanted to hear your opinion because I know you're not in the military right um and I am so I did I did have a specific um interpretation not that I've seen like you know obviously I'm not burned down villages or anything so no one no one arrests me but I do have a a a perspective so I just wanted to see like how you took it but I will answer your question. So I think and this is purely my opinion I think that in the begin I think that it was also it was also Matthew Broderick's kind of awakening that even though you know they're all in the army the men that he is over is still seen as less than I mean there was more than enough hints but I think that it really drove home in this scene here. Like there was hints, hints hints and now it's very obvious because they were never ever supposed to see battle. They were never ever you know they're not smart enough they're not you know uh yeah agile enough whatever whatever the answer is you know they don't know what to do with a rifle. Um you know there was several references to them being monkeys and to them um being you know uncord and educated whatever so they were never supposed to see battle so all they were good for was labor and pillaging these areas and these towns which all it did was reinforce they aren't good for anything. So you kind of had your bad apple who's leading this group and he's like kind of coming off as like oh you know I'm the guy who's I'm the look at me. It was kind of look it was kind of like the look at me. I I I'm leading this group of um black men uh even though I don't have to but even though this person was a leader he wasn't truly a leader but he was in a position of authority because he is a commissioned officer in the army and you have to follow their order. Broderick here right here is faced with his choice of uh doing what is right or doing what is wrong and unfortunately he chooses wrong um but he chooses wrong because still at this point he has not accepted that in order to actually lead this men lead these men the way he needs to lead them he needs to give up what I want to call his protection of whiteness and he's not able to do that and because of that he kinda and it doesn't mean that he's still not a white guy. I'm not saying you know start being stereotypically black whatever that looks like but there's a certain protection that comes with whiteness and in order to be truly like I am part of this group and I want to do better for this group you have to give that up and not many people are gonna give that up that's the whole thing. That's a lot of people are like oh yeah I I'm not I don't see color blah blah blah blah blah but benefit but then have no idea how they benefit like we just benefit just from existing you don't even have to do anything and that's the crazy part. Yep you literally don't have to do anything.
SPEAKER_05That part right there is what a lot of them even the well intentioned you know nice you know cool to hang out with open-minded white person they miss that is is literally an inherent privilege that you don't have to actively go out and be like flaunt your whiteness or whatever to receive benefits or privileges it's just it's just coded you know with our culture in our culture it's just coded hard coded it's just it's just there you know so you have it's it's passive you can be very passive you don't have to do anything actively and you are gonna receive more privileges or benefits or better treatment you know nine times out of ten when compared to
Campfire Testimonies And Brotherhood
SPEAKER_05a person of color. Yeah and that's just the way it is unfortunately he had backing he had power because of himself because of his name because of his family because of his rank and he just like completely was like nah this this other white guy is saying I can't do it so I guess I can't which is just weird because he had the power inherently again just showing like his because he but he and he had if I'm remembering correctly he already had flex of power when he got them the shoes and supplies yes because they were in uniform at this point yeah yeah you know so that's I don't know yeah the scene kind of didn't make sense it should have like been a little bit earlier then made more sense but where it was he already had the power but inherently he had the power by his family name and his correct and his but he was just like you know the that scene uh to me one of one of the most impactful scenes in the movie was when to go give Denzel well Shaw went to go give Private Tripp the commendation oh when he after the first battle okay yeah after the first battle yeah when they had that dialogue um and and you know he said um you know uh he say Sergeant Rollins has recommended you receive a commendation and Tripp said yes sir and Shaw says and I think you should bear the regimental colours uh which is essentially just means carry the flag in the battle which I didn't I didn't get that until the end of the exchange with that um and Shaw's like you know it's considered quite an honor and why not and you know Tripp says like he says I I'm I'm not fighting this war for you you know and he says I uh what's the point he said ain't nobody gonna win it's just gonna go on and on and then Shaw says it can't go on forever trip says yeah but ain't nobody gonna win Shaw insists that somebody's gonna win and Trip asks him who I mean you get to go back to Boston big house and all that what about us what do we get you know and that that whole exchange right there it was so heavy just so powerful and you know you could look forward to be just this happens in in in 1863 and you know you jump forward a hundred years to the 1960s and you're dealing with the civil rights movements and stuff and you're still fighting we are still fighting you understand what I'm saying and um it hasn't been a hundred years from there as yet but you know we're on pace and it's where are we going right now you know and not again not to get too heavy political but we're dealing with black history you know black history is is this is this is it's not pretty it's not pretty you know it it isn't no and it that I I again we don't know if this dialogue is real or anything but as far as the movie's concern just they're telling the story so yeah yeah I this was very powerful for this movie for what the Civil War was what it meant and for what we will go through once that's you know passes civil war and what we are we as as blacks African Americans what we're still going through in this country with we fight these wars we're always fighting some type of war fighting some type of battle and it's like you know when do we win? Right? When do we you know I mean we and we win little battles we do win battles here and there and stuff but this war is just keep it keeps raging it's been raging since the 1860s and I here we are um you know 165 years later 161 years later since it ended and you know obviously things are better but where is that equality where is that that uh you know fairness that that respect where
Score That Elevates The Story
SPEAKER_05is all where are all of those things you know yeah so and and the final line in the exchange was um shaw said it stinks trip said yeah it stinks bad and we all covered up in it no trip says yeah it stinks bad and we all cover up in it I mean ain't nobody clean be nice to get clean though and Shaw asked him how do we do it and trip said we anti up and kick in sir but I still don't want to carry your flag yeah and yeah I just I got a laugh out of that you know just uh and of course like I I immediately went to think about Colin Kaepernick right and you know that whole situation and and how the when we talk about what does the flag mean? What does the flag mean to the country? What does the flag mean to individuals within the country? What does the flag mean to individuals of certain complexion you know and and cultural um identity within the country um and and how that's perceived by other people like that was that that was that line was just very powerful for me you know yeah uh especially given where
SPEAKER_03And actually, I had that note here on one of my things. I think I don't know if it was the beginning or the middle of the movie, but either way, they were kind of celebrating them a little bit, and they had the all-black children's uh choir singing My Country Tis of thee. And I was like, forcing these children to sing My Country Tis of thee when not one of those looks actually applied to them is diabolical. Like, holy shit. I was I I I rolled my eyes at that scene. I was like, come on, girl. My country tis of the.
SPEAKER_05Those are Harlem, Harlem boys choir, whatever. I saw I sort of got credits with.
SPEAKER_03Alright, so one of the things we didn't get to talk about yet is uh the blatant inequality uh that happened in which the black soldiers were paid uh ten dollars a month, which Jesus, ten dollars a month is wild. I can't even imagine getting ten dollars in my pocket right now for a month worth of work.
SPEAKER_05So I did I did a conversion. Um I did a conversion, yeah. So it was it was supposed to be thirteen dollars a month, right? Yeah, the white soldiers. So in today's money, so in today's money, that's three hundred thirty-four dollars and forty-one cents.
SPEAKER_03Jesus. Not enough. Which is still not a lot for a month.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, nothing you can do for that. Like that's like that's grocery shopping for I mean it depends on how big your family is.
SPEAKER_03Like, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. Um, and then so the ten dollars that the uh blacks were getting equates to two hundred and fifty-seven dollars and twenty-four cents.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, which is just wild.
SPEAKER_05However, I
Ratings, Takeaways, And Sign-Off
SPEAKER_05also read that that's still not even completely accurate because that ten dollars, they were actually receiving seven of those dollars. They had to pay for you. Three of it was garnished for their uniforms. So the seven dollars actually equates to one hundred and eighty dollars and seven cents a month, is what those guys were making.
SPEAKER_03Wow, that's crazy.
SPEAKER_05Yep.
SPEAKER_03Um so yeah, just blatant, just inequality. Even when you're wearing the same colors as them, you're still not treated the same. Like any folk who any person who's in the military knows that enlisted people do not pay for uniforms. You don't pay for anything, really. Like all your food's taken care of, your household stuff is taken care of, your uniforms are taken care of. When you're officer, you're a different story. Like you have to pay for all your shape, which is annoying as hell because uniforms are expensive.
SPEAKER_00But it's cool.
SPEAKER_05Humble brag, humble brag. You slip that in there.
SPEAKER_03Either way, so yeah, they were just being, you know, they were just getting rates in several, I said rates, by the way, in several different stuff, several different ways. Um, it took more than a year. I mean, in the movie, they kinda they kind of like they did the whole uh well, uh, I think Matthew Broderick was like, if you guys aren't getting paid, I'm getting not getting paid either, and stuff like that. You know, Denzel incited it, because at first they were so used to just being not paid fairly that they were like, yeah, $10 is a lot of money still. I'm not gonna take it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I guess we gave me.
SPEAKER_03Come on, no, don't take that. And then, you know, you know, one dial voice, and then a couple other people picked up, and then now you have a whole insurgence of like, oh yeah, you're right, this isn't right. And they started ripping up their little uh pay stub thing. I'm not really sure what that paper was.
SPEAKER_05Whatever, yeah. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03I'm not sure what that was. But either way, the check?
SPEAKER_05I don't know. It was too big for a check. I don't know what that was.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I don't know what that was. Yeah, I don't know what that thing was, but either way, we start ripping it up symbolically, and of course, um, it took more than a year, actually, for Congress to fix it so that everybody was getting equal pay, which is just pay for it. That entire year. So not only were these people not getting any food. Uh I'm sorry, any money, but you can imagine that their families, um, many of them young men weren't getting any money back home because how what I was wondering, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Because I saw what you saw that it did eventually get the pay, but a lot of those men died. So did that money go to their families or did they just write it off?
SPEAKER_03Nah, they had to have send it. I mean, if they were following what correctly, you have to send it home.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it would go to their family. Yeah. Well, I guess what about the ones who didn't have any family, right? Because some of them I don't I don't know about that part. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Or if they couldn't find him. Like um, it was it was um oh well, we could talk about it a little bit. When we when we move into the to the campfire scene with Denzel, he he alluded that he didn't have any family and that he had murdered his mom, which I assume meant that you know she job she died during childbirth and he didn't actually uh childbirth. Yeah, and he didn't actually. I was like, Did you kill your mom, bro? But and I was like, okay, I think he means during childbirth. Which is you know, you can't I can't imagine that kind of carrying that kind of guilt and pain around of like you're the cause of your mother's death.
SPEAKER_05Heavy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But that that was one of your favorite scenes, the campfire scene. You want to go into it?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, so that this scene here, which leads us into the battle, which we already talked a lot about, but the the campfire scene was it was very powerful. Um starting off with the the spiritual that they were singing, and um it's all everyone, just all the guys just you know in harmony and and just singing, and then they they started breaking out for testimonials essentially. And um the guy with a stutter, I'm so sorry, I I don't know why I don't have his name, but he let it off first, and um he he demonstrated he learned our guy learned how to read, you know, because there was there was a comment about yeah, yeah, he learned how to read, even his stutter was a little, it was less, you know, than it was before. Um and and so when literally if that only happened, I would have been good with it. I really like the scene from there. But then Morgan Freeman got up. Um what's his uh Rollins, uh Bridger Sergeant Rollins, he got up and spoke. And I mean, it's it's Morgan Freeman, man. Any speech Morgan Freeman gives, you're gonna be you know, all in on it. Yeah. And and then Denzel came out and brought it home. And and his speech was very interesting because it's not it wasn't like a Denzel speech, right? We've talked about this before where you know Denzel gets like animated and he's like rioting up the men and all this stuff, and it his character trip showed um a side of vulnerability that we hadn't really seen, even when he was being whipped, yeah, he did shed the tear, but the vulnerability that he showed in that scene. Um and you know, he got up to speak and he didn't know what to say, and then just Morgan Freeman being there encouraging him. And uh when Tripp said, This feels funny, it just felt so real. You know, I don't know, you know, you you were like in Bible study back in the day, or you just in a room of shit and you have to like talk about like your feelings or talk about your relationship with God or something, and you feel silly, and just hearing them say that shit out loud was like this just feels funny. And Margaret Freema just being like, You're doing great, you know. Um it was just a very emotional scene, very powerful scene, and you know, they were keeping the chanting going on in the background with the clapping and and so forth, the rhythmic clapping. Um it it was a very beautiful scene um to help lead us into you know the end of the movie. I I really did enjoy all of that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I concur. I think it was very well done. I don't think I have much to add to that one. You laid it out pretty good. Uh I looked up his name real quick. Jimmy Kennedy. Oh, yeah. His name is Jimmy Kennedy.
SPEAKER_05Is that the actor or the character's name?
SPEAKER_03No, no, uh, that's the actor's name, Jimmy Kennedy. The actor's Jimmy Kennedy. My character's name was Private Schartz. S-H-A-R-T-S.
SPEAKER_04Schreckts. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Schartz. Okay, that's a tough name. Yeah, Sharts is not.
SPEAKER_03I would have studied too because Jesus Christ. Oh, Jimmy Kennedy, okay, yeah. That last name.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Um that's that's I don't know that Jimmy Kennedy. I don't know. Is he yeah, he's not yes, even on Wikipedia, his name's not even highlighted, so I don't know if he did any other acting and stuff, but he did really good in the in this movie. I really liked it. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. His role. His little mini character arc in there. So I do have Denzel's speech where he was addressing the 54th. Um, just if I can just read that real quickly. So what he says when he's around a campfire, he says, I ain't much about no prayer now. I ain't never had no family and killed off my mama. Well, I just y'all's the only family I got. I love the 54th. Ain't even much a matter what happens tomorrow. Because we men, ain't we? We men. And my the last thing I want to add to this is this this speech and this scene was so powerful, even though I feel like the movie could have done more to show his growth and the the growing affection he has for the 54. I feel like the movie could have done a better job. But Denzel just did such an amazing job delivering the line and the the scenario, the scene was well edited and directed. I mean, um so it was conveyed. Like I believe that these guys were really, you know, he couldn't stand, he didn't care about these guys before, and I believe that he does love these guys and he's ready to go to war with them. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03I I thought the we meant, ain't we? Was like, I was like, that's such a man statement. Like, you ain't gonna know what to say. You just like we meant, ain't we?
SPEAKER_05Like, I know it was so it was such a short, it was so short, like it was not like some verbose um you know, dialogue or or speech that he gave. It was it was very minuscule and it was just all emotion, you know. That's all emotion.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it was it was all in his face, like you know, the tears.
SPEAKER_05I think he cried a little and you know he turned away from the the the crowd, he turned away from the crowd and then turned back, you know.
SPEAKER_03He started clapping along and stuff like that. So yeah. And a very aggressive clap. I don't know what he was doing, but yeah, he was not going along with the beat. But hey, trip was there. All right, all right. All right, all right, bring us home with our uh rankings. What do you got?
SPEAKER_05All right, let's rate this thing. So for our criteria, we rate based on five criteria. We have plot and writing, acting and casting, production, cinematography, visuals, we have music and sound, and cultural impact are the categories that we rate. Starting with plot and writing, I gave it a six.
SPEAKER_03Okay, that's a solid number.
SPEAKER_05Um you have a Y? Yeah. Yeah. Um I actually toy between a six and a five, and I end up doing the six. The the reason being is that uh all the the what I was talking about prior with I just wish the story focused on something else, uh, more than 54. I know I've said that a few times on this already, but that's the big reason for my the because I can't like argue about the plot, it's a historical account, you know. Um, but I I just wish that they had just focused more on the infantrymen and given us their story versus um it was more of Shaw's story, and we you know, saw him interacting with the with the guy. So I I gave it a six.
SPEAKER_03Okay. So I originally gave it a seven, um, mostly because I like you said, it's hard to argue with a historical reenactment or account of something that is technically kind of true with some you know movie flourish in there. But I dropped it down to the six officially, um, because of what you actually brought up, which is yes, it would have been a much better, more impactful story to hear, you know, the reenactment or the assumptions, whatever you want to say there, of the um 54th uh Massachusetts so that you know we could get that other perspective um a little more in our face and kind of just hinted at.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Cool. Um acting and casting. I I gave it an 8, and those two points knocked off were because of Matthew Broderick. I didn't. Sorry, Matthew Broderick, you're fine. It's just for this movie, it wasn't his his part was not working for me at all. Um, however, um pretty much everyone else in a supporting cast I thought was excellent. So I gave it an eight.
SPEAKER_03I'm a little lower than you. I by one, I gave it a seven.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_03Um because of Matthew Broderick. He literally knocked it down. Anyone else, it probably would have been a ten. But yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, same. Yeah. Okay. Uh next category is production, cinematography, and visuals. And I gave that a nine.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_05What did you give that?
SPEAKER_03I gave it an eight.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_03But again, no, no, no, you can go. I was just gonna say, very strong uh uh uh camera work, very strong. Like, I felt like I was like I had to actually look it up a little bit, like dang, what kind of like visuals did they use for this? Like, did they do something else? Like it felt like you were really there. Um, like when the sand was covering them, I felt like they really couldn't see and stuff. I was like, damn, I probably would have had sand in my eyes and stuff, especially during the final battle. But I thought it was very well shot. Um, so I gave it a strong, a very strong eight. I could creep up to nine, but I'll keep it at an eight for now.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no, um, same. It was it was just excellent. Uh the for a movie like this and the time it was done in um it nothing it never came off as cheesy or campy or anything or cheap looking. Like it just everything looked great. Yeah. Uh next category, music and sound. I gave a 10 for that category.
SPEAKER_03I also gave a 10. Like that was just an excellent score. Um, like I said earlier, to me, there were certain scenes, and I wrote it down, but I can't find it in my notes. I don't know why. But there were certain scenes that like the music really superseded whatever the hell else was going on in the screen. Like I really didn't even care. It was just listening to it. It was, you know, he did a hell of a job. So I gave it a 10 as well.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, um, soaring horns and the use of of my oboe in there. Wind instruments, yeah. The wind, the the the upper winds. Uh just the theme was very nice and catchy. You could hear it when it came back, and there were times where, like you said, the music was carrying the scene. There was a lot of times where it was working in tandem, it was it was just perfectly scored, and it was always interesting. And the music lets you know that it was there without being in your life.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it wasn't never loud and like ridiculous. Like, damn, I can't hear nothing because they're screaming horns. It was just like perfectly placed. So kudos to them for sure.
SPEAKER_05And for the final category, cultural impact, I gave it an eight for that.
SPEAKER_03I also gave I also gave it an eight, yes. Um I mean, telling the story of the first or one of the first, um, with our with our no knowledge of the Kansas infantry, um, is always impactful. It's always impactful to kind of learn more about the history. Especially from like I said, for me, I had not seen this movie, so um, I don't think I knew very much about the 54th until like now. So same. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_05No, yeah, same. Yeah, uh, yeah, I don't have anything else to add than that. I mean, we, you know, it's it was, at least in the 90s, um, showed in in schools, you know, and it's it it's an educational piece of of black history. It really is, it stands the test of time. Uh, every generation should watch it because I don't think enough is known about the role and impact that blacks, black Americans had during the Civil War. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Um, you know, they they talk a lot about you know, our freedom was given to no, we had to fight for our freedom. Well, we, but you know, our people had to fight for that freedom. You know, we were active participants, we weren't just sitting there waiting for you know somebody to sign a paper and be like, all right, you guys will go go, you know, do your own thing. No, we there was a war fought on the basis of this, and a lot of the people in it were because after this happened, um, as we I think we stated, other black infantries were created, you know, uh based off of what the 54 did. So it is a very impactful piece of culture. I don't know how much it's still shown and and referenced, and I don't know if this generation of kids know about it. That's why it's not a 10 for me. Uh, because I don't know if the staying power, unfortunately, is there. Not for any lack of the movie, just because of where we are as a society, we're not prioritizing this type of you know, education and and and whatnot in the schools these days. But give it an eight, strong eight.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_03Overall, I think a great movie. Denzel knocked it out of the park. 100% deserved the nod and the win. Um, Morgan Freeman, of course. Um, Andrew Barr, of course, 9-9.
SPEAKER_05So get 9-9. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, yeah, these guys killed it, and they're the reasons why they were and are considered, you know, uh Hollywood greats in the community for sure.
SPEAKER_05Awesome. Well, that will do it for our Real Talk and Banter on the movie Glory. Thanks for listening today to connect with us to give us some feedback or just say hello, email us at real talkbanter at gmail.com. That's R-E-E-L banter at gmail.com. Thanks for listening.
SPEAKER_03Are you a free man or a free woman?
SPEAKER_04There it is.