Disney’s Darkest Friendship Tale: The Fox and the Hound (1981)

A fox and a hunting dog promise they’ll be friends forever, then adulthood shows up with a leash, a shotgun, and a job description. We’re rewatching Disney’s The Fox and the Hound (1981) and treating it like what it really is: a Disney Dark Age coming-of-age story packed with grief, prejudice, loyalty, and the painful math of growing up.

We break down the full arc from Todd’s adoption by the kind Widow Tweed to the moment Copper returns as a trained hunting dog and everything gets complicated. Along the way, we get into the themes that hit harder with age: how kids form friendships before labels, how nurture can reshape identity, and why some relationships don’t survive the people we become. We also get honest about Todd’s behavior on rewatch, because “sweet” doesn’t always mean “healthy” when someone ignores boundaries, dismisses warnings, and keeps pulling a friend into trouble.

Then we talk about the movie’s emotional center: Widow Tweed’s decision to let Todd go, one of the saddest Disney scenes for anyone who’s ever had to make an impossible choice for someone they love. We unpack Amos Slade as more than a cartoon villain, the ethics of hunting and property, and the climactic bear sequence that forces Todd and Copper to choose what kind of animals and what kind of friends they want to be.

After our ratings, Omari brings on a special guest: Malachi Williams, fresh off his first watch, to hear a kid’s take on friendship, fear, and why Big Mama steals the show. If you love Disney animation, movie reviews, and real talk about nostalgia that doesn’t dodge the hard parts, hit play, then subscribe, share with a friend, and leave us a review.

Transcript

Welcome And Movie Pick

SPEAKER_04 0:29

Hello and welcome to the Real Talk and Banter Podcast, the movie podcast where we discuss and review films that are at least a decade old. I'm Omari Williams.

SPEAKER_07 0:41

And I'm Jay Richardson.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

And today we are discussing The Fox and the Hound 1981 Buddy Drama. Animated film. This is our second, third animated film. I don't even know. Second, I think.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

I think second. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01

Very excited about it.

SPEAKER_07 1:01

Yeah, you and your fern ass gully.

SPEAKER_04 1:04

Fern gully? Come on now. I mean, hey, surprise, surprise, folks. This animated film was selected by Jill. Not me. Not the man child in the group.

SPEAKER_07 1:14

Fox and a Hound, folks, produced by Disney during what a lot of folks call Disney's kind of dark age. Well Disney had just died, you know. But before the Disney Renaissance. So this film was directed by Art Stevens, Ted Berman, and Richard Rich, based loosely on a novel by Daniel P. Mannix. Have you read that?

SPEAKER_04 1:38

That was news to me. I did not know there was a book until research for this uh for this watch of the movie.

SPEAKER_07 1:45

Oh, yeah. I also did not read the book.

SPEAKER_04 1:47

Like did did you know it existed?

SPEAKER_07 1:50

I knew there was a book. I just didn't read it. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:54

I always think of it as a 90s movie, but as you said, it's a dark age movie which is in the 70s to the 80s. So yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:03

Yeah. I also I I'm right there with you because I've I'm so used to it being I had the VHS with the little cover with the Fox and the Hound on it, and you know. So I always thought it was a 90s movie. I didn't realize it was actually released in the 80s until looking at this. I was like, oh. Oh yeah. Well, that makes sense. All right. It features the voices of Mickey Rooney as Todd the Fox, Kurt Russell. This is our this is our second Kurt Russell movie now, huh?

SPEAKER_03 2:32

As our Copper.

SPEAKER_07 2:36

Oh, I thought you were gonna say something now. That's like pause. Copper the Hound.

SPEAKER_04 2:41

I would just agree with you.

SPEAKER_07 2:44

I know the Dan Hound's name, Copper the Hound. The movie cost approximately $12 million to make, which is which was at the time the most expensive animated film Disney had ever produced at, you know, at that time. Yeah. It went on, it went on to grow 63 million at the box office. So definitely a hit, you know.

SPEAKER_04 3:05

Yeah, success.

SPEAKER_06 3:07

Success.

SPEAKER_07 3:09

I feel like this movie is special not just for the animation and the songs and adventure, but it's definitely an emotional punch. It talks about friendship, prejudices, growing up, betrayal, painful reality. There's a lot of really dark themes in this movie that are like I don't think that I got it as a kid, but watching it now, I'm like, oh shit, you know. So we're gonna break down this movie. We're gonna do this a little bit differently. We'll talk a little bit about you know what happens, but really want to get into the major themes that I just kind of highlighted. And we'll see. This this movie has way more to say than I think most people realize. So let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Nice. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_07 3:52

Alright, cool. Before we get into it, you know, we always try to stump each other. I don't think we intentionally try to, but I think we're competitive enough that we do. So before we get into it, I

Tim Burton Trivia And Disney Dark Age

SPEAKER_07 4:03

got a question for Mr. Omari here.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Are you ready? Yep, let's do it.

SPEAKER_07 4:08

So before becoming a director of films like Batman and Edward Scissor Hands, which future Hollywood director worked as a young animator on the Fox and the Howl?

SPEAKER_04 4:19

Tim Burton.

SPEAKER_07 4:20

I hate you. Anyway, anyway.

SPEAKER_04 4:26

No, well, okay. You I mean, you gave it away with Edward Scissors hand. You know, I know that.

SPEAKER_07 4:30

I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know.

SPEAKER_04 4:32

Yeah, that was tough.

SPEAKER_07 4:33

I know. That's how it's like, I don't want to be like, I should have I should have left it at Batman. And you don't really get Tim Burton and Disney, but you know, he was there.

SPEAKER_04 4:40

You know, I thought your trivia was gonna be to ask me what the Dark Age movies were for Disney.

SPEAKER_07 4:45

Yeah, so tell us the Dark Ages movies.

SPEAKER_04 4:47

No, I'm not saying that I couldn't name them, but I just thought that that's what you were about to. I I know a few.

SPEAKER_07 4:54

There's eight that were released. So the Dark Ages we're talking about was an 18-year period from 1970 to 1988.

SPEAKER_04 5:02

Yep. Okay. So Fox and the Hound is a gimme. Robin Hood is on there.

SPEAKER_07 5:08

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:09

Great movie. The Black Cauldron is on there, right? That's a great movie. Yeah, yeah. Is the sword and the stone in there? Sword and Stone is not there. Damn.

SPEAKER_03 5:19

But I love that movie.

SPEAKER_04 5:20

Oh, it's so good. I named three movies. Damn. You did. And one of the Oliver, Oliver, well, four. It's four movies I named. But I didn't count Fox in the House. So I named three on my own. Yeah. Okay. Oliver, Oliver and Company? Yes, Oliver and Company is there. So I have three more movies. What are the three that I'm missing?

SPEAKER_03 5:47

Meow.

SPEAKER_04 5:49

Meow. Who is that? There's a cat movie? What's a cat movie? Is there a cat movie? Arista Cats.

SPEAKER_07 5:56

There we go.

SPEAKER_04 5:57

That kicked it off in 1970. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's tough. That's a that's such a good movie. That is a good movie. Another movie. I rewatched Arista Cats in the last few years. And I remember being sh Yeah, I think because Netflix did their remake thing, and I was like, ugh, and let me watch the original one. And I was like, 1970? I did not know this movie was so old. Is Jungle Book on this? No.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

No. I think Jungle Book was less.

SPEAKER_04 6:26

That might be that's later on, yeah. What no, I mean earlier. I think I might have been in the 60s. What do you have hints for other two? Uh this one has a very depressing character. Hunchback at Notre Dame.

SPEAKER_07 6:42

No, no, no, no. Oh, damn. Okay. The main character really likes honey.

SPEAKER_04 6:49

Oh, we need a poo. Oh, fuck, that's your depressing character, Eeyore.

SPEAKER_07 6:53

Yeah, there you go. There you go.

SPEAKER_06 6:55

Damn, you went to the hunchback at Notre Dame.

SPEAKER_04 6:58

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Oh Jesus.

SPEAKER_05 7:04

Man's just trying to live his life. I know.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

I love him.

SPEAKER_07 7:09

It's really sad though.

SPEAKER_04 7:10

Damn.

SPEAKER_07 7:11

Oh my god. Yeah, the many adventures of Winnie the Pooh, 1977. Just to wrap it up, we have the rescuers also in 1977.

SPEAKER_04 7:20

That's crazy because the rescuers down under is in the Renaissance. Anyway.

SPEAKER_07 7:26

Then we have the Great Mouse Detective to round it out in 1986. All right. Okay, let's go ahead. Let's do this thing. So, for those of you who have not watched The Fox and the Hound, this is a let's see. I would say it's definitely dark. Like, well, that's where he's been hitting it. There's a lot of dark themes here. There is. It starts out with this with this mother fox with her baby fox in her mouth, and she's essentially running for her life. They always trying to kill off the mother. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_04 7:56

Classic Disney.

SPEAKER_07 7:57

Classic Disney. Death of a mother. Death of the mother. That's tragedy. I don't know. But yeah, so she's been hunted. Uh, she decides to hide her baby. And she decides to hide her baby and run off, I guess, to try to, you know, distract the hunters. They get her, unfortunately. You don't see it on TV. But you know, it's it's it's insinuated. There's a gunshot, and you know, she don't appear again. So we assume she got got. The young fox is left to kind of fend on his own, but is quickly adopted by Big Mama, which is uh owl thing. That's a big ass owl. I'm gonna be honest. She's an owl. Yeah, big ass owl. I'm like, uh, I don't even know what that was. I mean, I don't even think it's supposed to be an owl, but I'm like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_04 8:44

But no, like, there's so many owl species, and they don't even say what kind of owl, it just says an owl, you know, like I don't know, yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_07 8:55

Uh so Big Mama comes up with a plan. Uh at first we thought I thought she was gonna, you know, kind of adopt them, but she's like, ah, not me. So she comes up with a plan with some of the other forest creatures to introduce her to the widow, which oh, I didn't look up who voiced her the widow. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 9:16

I have it right here. It is Jeanette Nolan. Okay, and she's not the widow. Her name is Widow Tweed.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

That is true. My fault.

SPEAKER_04 9:29

Which no no no, I mean it's a shit name, and it's very confusing.

SPEAKER_07 9:34

Alright. We also have Dinky the Sparrow and Boomer the Woodpecker. They again help Big Mama to to be they help Big Mama to get the red fox, the young red fox, which is Todd, adopted by widow Tweed. We have her neighbor, Hunter, Amos Said Slade. I'm sorry, Amos Slade, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 9:58

I was trying to stifle my laugh so I don't interrupt you. But you can see me.

SPEAKER_07 10:04

Yeah, it goes like a fucking see you in your mouth wide open. Like holy shit. Oh my god. Alright, so uh Amos. I like that name actually. Amos is an asshole. He's he's wild with his his gun shot, with his uh shotgun, I'm sorry, but yeah. He eventually gets a a little dog, right? The little dog is a very cute hound, and that's how we end up with the two fox and the hound. Originally, these two are playing, they're enjoying each other's company. They say we'll be friends forever, right? And he's like, Yeah, of course we will. But yeah, Amos is not feeling it. He he bought a dog to be a hunter dog, and that's what his only point in life is. They have a little bit of run-ins here and there. Todd is always coming over to play. But one time he accidentally wakes up Chief, and then there's a chaos ensues. Amos and Chief are chasing him around, and the chickens are involved, and it gets all crazy. Eventually, Amos threatens to kill Todd if he trespasses his property again. And then, you know, they try to keep each other away. They keep they try to keep Todd away from it from him, but it doesn't really work that well. So for following spring, Todd and Copper, they bet they eventually reach adulthood. Copper returns, he's an expert hunting dog. And you know, now

Getting Into the Themes

SPEAKER_07 11:35

we really get into the themes. So you want anything, anything to add to that?

SPEAKER_04 11:41

No, no, no. That that that sets up the movie and what's about to happen.

SPEAKER_07 11:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:46

Yeah. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_07 11:48

We'll talk about friendship before I guess quote unquote society gets involved, right? The kind of uh they even made a song about it. Big mama's singing about it.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

The best of friends. Yeah. The best of friends. Damn it. That was it. I had something for this. Okay, sorry. Continue.

SPEAKER_07 12:09

That was it. That was it. When Todd and Copper first meet, they don't know they're supposed to be enemies, right? One is a fox, one is a hound, a hunting dog specifically. But they don't, you know, none of that matters to them. And I think that it plays a lot into themes that we can see in our regular life with kids. Like kids, they don't care about, you know, color, gender, blah, blah, blah. They just want to play. And whoever's willing to play, that's all that's what they care about. They don't care about social class, generally politics, religion, where the person came from. Like, bro, can you play or not? That's all I care about. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 12:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 12:49

So Todd sees another animal who wants to play. Copper sees another animal who wants to be his friend, and that's kind of it. One thing I noticed while I was re-watching this movie is just kind of they don't really become friends because they necessarily have something in common. They just became friends because they're lonely. You know, Todd is an orphan, Copper is just a puppy trying to find his place, and they're both just took it for discussion connections, right? So do you think that Todd and Copper would have remained friends forever if Amos had never entered a picture? Like, would nature eventually take over? Or will nurture be, you know, win this one? What do you think? Were they destined to end up on opposite sides?

SPEAKER_04 13:37

The movie would have you believe that Big Mama does give that whole education or elimination speech to Todd when Copper leaves for his hunting trip. No, I I think if they grew up together and were able to maintain that connection that they developed over however many months, I think they would have remained friends.

SPEAKER_07 14:01

I agree. I think so. Yeah. I I don't think that they didn't they both were just like kind of sweethearts. They weren't like natural assholes. It wasn't until Todd, I'm sorry, Copper went away for the hunting trip and he really dove into the role of I'm a hunting dog and I'm supposed to hunt things that he kind of came back and was kind of a little bit more aggressive.

SPEAKER_03 14:23

But initially he wasn't like that at all. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 14:29

So you are you blaming? Are we saying Copper's the reason why the defriction in the friendship happened?

SPEAKER_05 14:36

It wasn't Todd.

SPEAKER_04 14:38

Ooh. I have some notes on Todd on this rewatch. I have some notes on Todd.

SPEAKER_07 14:44

I would say Todd was severely naive, but he didn't grow up, you know, having to really as a as a prey or anything. Like he wasn't he didn't even get hunted, so he's a little bit protected.

SPEAKER_04 15:01

Uh yes.

SPEAKER_07 15:04

So he was just kind of living in la la land of like everything's great, and that's just not what it really was.

SPEAKER_04 15:13

I I don't know. I hear what you're saying, and and that that works too. Just after like rewatching this movie and just like more closely examining their their friendships and the relationship, Todd Todd's a little toxic, man. He is. Oh, yeah. He really is. I have I I could if you I can build my case now or wait for later. You just let me know. But I have that Todd's a little toxic. 100%.

SPEAKER_07 15:42

Okay. Let's talk about it. Give me the toxicity of Todd.

SPEAKER_04 15:46

I feel like Todd, yes, I hear everything you're seeing, the the naivety and the the optimism and all that stuff. Todd also is not good about respecting boundaries. Right? He living in his sheltered life does not have the best instincts. Yet, whenever someone with better instincts gives him advice or tells him to do or not to do something, he doesn't listen to them. Right? When he went over, he got copper in trouble. He got copper in trouble several times. And Copper's like, yeah, man, they got me on the leash. I can't come out no more, or whatever. And no, first, backing it up. First, he got in trouble and they didn't tie him up. And Todd was like, Come on, man, fuck, fuck them. Like, let's let's go play. And he he made Copper encouraged, he didn't make him, he encouraged Copper to sneak out when he wasn't supposed to. Now he gets tied up. So Todd's like, fuck it, we'll play here. And Copper's like, uh, I mean, I don't know. Like, you know, we don't want to wake up Chief. Todd's like, fuck Chief. Let me who gives a shit. And he goes in and he antagonizes Chief. Listen, man, Todd is a toxic friend. I'm not saying he's a bad or a terrible friend, or you wouldn't even want to be friends with him. He has toxic tendencies. Right. They became glaring when he met Vixie. Right? And my guy went from oh gosh, he's bad to fuck that ho to I love you in moments. In moments. Listen to me. Todd crashed out. I did not remember Todd having a crash out. He crashed out when he couldn't catch that fish and he started laughing at him. He called her a silly, empty-headed female and like stormed off. Like, yo, this guy. I'm sorry, but Todd is a little toxic.

SPEAKER_07 17:43

Yeah, okay, I agree. I'm not saying Todd was the best. Todd wasn't the best, but I also attribute it to him being young and being sheltered. And I give some grace for that. Sure. Um, but yes, he should have listened on several occasions. Several. Especially when Vixie was like, yo, it's too quiet. Let's not go there. Don't go in there.

SPEAKER_04 18:04

Nah, we got this. This mother scot went in there, eyes closed. La la la, la la la. I was like, dude, what an asshole. Like, nah, man. Todd, Todd is problematic. I'm sorry. I don't know. I I think I was more on like your side as far as like, yeah, Copper was the one that kind of put the distance. But I don't know, man. At the end of the day, like

Kids Growing Up

SPEAKER_04 18:30

as kids, yeah, we together, we kicking and we're having a good time and everything. But like, I mean Copper went out, did some training, learned some skills, got himself a job. Hot just out here, cooling, not doing anything. He wants me playtime and play mode all the time. And Copper's like, yo, dog, like I got I got shit to do, man. Like, I can't I can't do this no more, you know? Should Copper not be allowed to like because sometimes you outgrow your friends, right? That's that's the thing that can be like.

SPEAKER_07 19:03

Growing up means losing things sometimes, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

Right? So there's two ways of looking at one, is Todd being is Todd going through some arrested development where he's not allowing the friendship to grow apart, or is he just being loyal and believing in in a bond that he cherishes and nurtures at a very young age?

SPEAKER_07 19:29

I'm gonna lean on the more optimistic, positive viewpoint of Mans is a is Mans was dropped off. He's an orphan, you know, he only has like a few connections, and yeah, it's kind of hard to lose those connections, even if it's for a valid reason. You're just like, well, this is all I've known, you know? Like it's so interesting watching these movies. I love that we do this, I'll be honest. There's certain movies where I just love that we do this because I don't know if I'd watch Fox and the Hound from a perspective of trying to review it. Like I always watch it from the point of just I enjoy it. But I watch it. Yeah, it's a feel-good movie. But to sit and watch it from this other perspective of like reviewing it, I have to like stop and think outside of just I enjoy this movie. But what else is it telling me? And I I think it is it it's a lovely coming to base story with with really nice really nice themes that aren't like overbearing or crazy, but that there. And as you get older, you really, really see it. So um, I think you hit the nail on the head. When they're young, the world is simple, but as they grow up, responsibilities enter the picture, especially for copper. Expectations enter the picture, reality enters the picture. And I think it's one of the hardest lessons that we all have to have to learn as adults that sometimes relationships don't survive the people that we become. Not only friendships, but relations like you know, romantic relationships, parental relationships, you know, all these things that unfortunately don't always make it from you know the time you're six to 36 or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_07 21:10

Sometimes your best friend moves away, your priorities change, you know, you are some people are family oriented, some people are still single, and you're just like, yo, I can't come out. I have a kid. What the fuck? Get out of here. Uh sometimes life pushes you in different directions.

SPEAKER_04 21:27

I was just gonna comment on you saying calling it a coming of age story, and it I never even thought of it that way because I keep fixating the title of the movie is The Fox and the How. The movie could have been called The Fox, though, right? This Todd is the main character of the story, you know. So it's interesting when you say it's a coming of age story, just Todd going through that whole abandonment, the found family, the uh friendship, the that friendship being threatened. Well, before even being threatened. The distance, right? Being thrown into the friendship, into that relationship, and him never wavering and just being like, Oh shit, copper's back. That's my that's my dog, copper's back. And and everyone else is like, Well, hold on now, copper's gonna be a little different. He's like, Nah man, that's copper, you know? And so him having just that confidence and just the nostalgia that we have watching this movie. Todd has that nostalgia for that friendship, right? Where he's like, It's copper, that's all that matters, right? And then him him getting put out of the house and having to go his own way, it's like all of that stuff is so coming of age story. I've never thought of this movie that way, but that is precisely what it is too.

SPEAKER_06 22:40

100%. That is that is childhood to adulthood, right there.

SPEAKER_04 22:44

Yep, yep. When he had to defend his woman, I know we're gonna talk about the end later, but even when because at first I was like, I was talking shit about copper, and then when copper, um not copper, I'm sorry, I was talking shit about Todd, and then when Todd had to stand up to Copper to defend his woman, I was like, okay, burn his teeth. He's gonna be like Dog.

SPEAKER_07 23:01

Hey, he's like, hey, I can do some shit too. You want to growl?

SPEAKER_04 23:05

I can growl too. I said Todd can scrap. All right. I don't know where he learned that shit, but he was ready. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_07 23:15

I actually I always kind of think about like how the hell did you and I become friends? Because I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 23:21

I have a hard time placing that too. I don't know either. Yeah, this is hilarious. We've never talked about it, but I have no fucking idea. What I do know, the closest I can get is that definitely in seventh grade, because we're both started confirmation class at that point in time. Yeah. But like I don't know before then what was happening, and I don't know, all right, once we're in confirmation class, I'm not sure that there's not an inciting moment I can remember where I was like, Right, oh, we're best friends, you know, like right, right.

SPEAKER_07 23:56

I didn't like give you my cookies and now we're friends forever. Like, I don't know what the fuck happened because there's other people in confirmation that I don't talk to at all.

SPEAKER_04 24:03

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 24:04

Not nothing wrong with them. Love them all. I just we just don't have that vibe. So I just like I can't pinpoint the reason or I've tried to over the years. Oh, this is my guy. Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 24:20

All right, let's get back to the let's get back to the to the movie here.

SPEAKER_04 24:25

It's funny how these like these I wonder if all these cartoons are gonna be like fucking therapy sessions.

SPEAKER_07 24:31

Damn there. I think they are like it really, I think these cartoons are really for adults, but like obviously it's packaged for children, but you don't have the meant I don't want to say all children, because you know, all children are in different stages of life for whatever reason, but yeah, yeah, yeah. A majority of children don't have the purview to really understand this. So it's either it's packaged for adults or it's like a warning for children of like, hey, this is what could happen.

SPEAKER_04 24:58

I think well, formula formula-wise to to make excuse me, to make a good children's movie, you have to put shit in there for adults because you need the adults to take the children to watch these movies and for the adult to kind of check in. But aside from the capitalism part of things, I I do agree with you that I feel like the best when we look at the best cartoons or children's movies in general, because Homeward Bound was kind of like that too. That's why I keep thinking we did more than one animated movie, because we did Homeward Bound, which is another children's movie. You gotta put some stuff in there. If if these kids aren't learning stuff, then what are we doing?

SPEAKER_07 25:39

Alright, so

Todd’s Toxic Side And Boundaries

SPEAKER_07 25:40

so we're kind of going into it, so I'll just follow it up. So the following spring, once Todd and Copper reach adulthood, Copper is now this big dog, hunting dog. Todd is still himself, he thinks they're still cool. Todd comes over, he wants to see Copper. This is the first time he's seen him since last spring when he went away. Todd is Copper is pretty much like, hey yo, I mean, good to see you, but yo, we can't do this. Todd's like, what are you talking about, bro? I got this. I can out fox Chief. Chief, of course, hears him, wakes up, starts chasing. Amos apparently doesn't sleep. Also wakes up gunshot in his hand, uh gunshot shotgun in his hand. And now there's a big chase that ensues. We have Copper, Chief, and Amos all following Todd around, which I was like, isn't his home like right there? Like, why is he going all over these places? Like, why does he just go back home?

SPEAKER_04 26:31

You mean Todd when he's running away?

SPEAKER_07 26:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:34

At one point I was like, where did this mountain come from?

SPEAKER_07 26:41

What is this waterfall mountain thing? Like, where did he go? And why?

SPEAKER_04 26:46

Like, why didn't he just get home? Even Monica got lost in the geography because he was like, Oh, they're neighbors? I was like, Yeah, he's like, Okay, like, because if they're neighbors, why is that chase so fucking long? Like, he should just hop the fence and go to his house. Yeah, Todd took them around the world, man. I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 27:03

I don't know. I don't know why he didn't go home and go back in, you know, whatever. However, he got out, go back in. But he would be like, Oh, I'm gonna go all over the place, which is kind of weird, but okay. And then there's all of a sudden a railroad with train. Yeah, yeah. What is this crazy?

SPEAKER_04 27:21

All the all the geography, all the terrain is just in this one little area. I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 27:28

So so Topper does find Todd and says, yo, I'm gonna let you go this one time because you know, we're cool, but if I catch you again, I'm gonna have to do what I have to do. On God? On God?

SPEAKER_03 27:44

On God.

SPEAKER_07 27:48

It's on site. It's on site. Todd Todd takes it, tries to run away. Unfortunately, Chief catches in this time on a railroad track. There's an uncoming train out of nowhere for some reason that is coming on the same track. Todd ducks, Chief gets hit slash jumps. I don't really know.

SPEAKER_04 28:08

Obliterated. He should have died.

SPEAKER_07 28:10

That's what I said. I was like, so I assume, I assume that he jumps, and you know, that's what happened. But they're saying like online that no, the train hit him. I'm like, well, if the train fucking hit him, then he's dead.

SPEAKER_04 28:24

I mean, let's be honest. I know, right? That's the train would have obliterated him. But let's say, okay, no, he jumped. That fall would have killed him too. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_07 28:33

I mean, that was pretty high up. I I felt like it was high up, but I felt like the chances of survival is better to jump than to let him.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

He's surviving with several broken bones to die in a few days, like in his fucking owner's house.

SPEAKER_06 28:47

Like, I mean no injuries.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

Yeah, man. Like, I don't know. Like, where's the nearest vet? I I don't know. I guess he did go to a vet. Oh, he had someone come to the house? Someone came to the house. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 28:58

I don't know. I don't know how exactly he got wrapped up like that with the cast or you know.

SPEAKER_04 29:03

Yeah, I think someone someone had came to the house.

SPEAKER_07 29:06

Yeah. It's kind of hard to tell where everything is. But either way, Copper sees this, looks up at Todd, he's a little enraged because his buddy Chief, even though they weren't really close, almost died, slash, died, whatever happened. You think they weren't really close? Chief kind of hated him. So Chief didn't hate him. Chief hated him.

SPEAKER_04 29:25

Chief didn't hate him. Nah, man.

SPEAKER_07 29:29

He became the big dog. Chief hated him. Come on now.

SPEAKER_04 29:32

I guess it's how it feels to be a big dog. I'm a long way from that breakup. No.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

I was letting you go.

SPEAKER_04 29:40

I mean I'm not gonna say that word on the pod, so okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:45

Alright.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

Anyway, no, but I Chief was like a mentor to him, so I just think that yeah, he was just like he was trying to he was trying to lil Lil bro Copper, and Copper was like, not uncle, you know, he kinda, you know, but I don't think he hated him. And they were they spent like all that time alone on that trip and stuff. No, I think he looked at Chief as a mentor, and mentor Chief was just kind of annoyed at his fucking kid. But that's all it was.

SPEAKER_07 30:12

Yeah, sure. I I think I think he looked up to Chief as a mentor. I think and Chief hated him, but you know, either either way. It's not possible, yeah. Oh so uh widow Tweed realizes that uh Todd is no longer safe with her. Todd doesn't stay where he's supposed to be. So she picks him up, takes him to a game reserve, and drops him off.

SPEAKER_04 30:36

Because he'll be safer there.

SPEAKER_07 30:38

I thought, bro. I was like, isn't he just safer in your yard? Like, not only will he have to fight other hunters, but also you know, the one hunter that really wants him, then other hunters or people, hunting is illegal there.

SPEAKER_04 30:55

So that's what I think. Yeah, no, it's because it did say game preserve, no hunting. So Amos was doing what the fuck he wanted. So, okay, other hunters, if they followed the rules, were out of the question. However, this is a fully domesticated fox. He is not that's why I said he's not gonna survive. He was gonna be dead by the end of the week. A hundred percent. That was reckless for her to just drop him off there.

unknown 31:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:27

I think there is there is a way to reintroduce animals to the wild. She had to like bring him out there a few times or something. I don't know what the process is, but there's a way. But I know it's not just taking the freaking pet fox you've had for the last 15 months in your house and just sim bye.

SPEAKER_07 31:42

So let's talk about the scene which you already kind of delved into. Widow Tweed taking Todd into the forest. She gave him zero chance of actually surviving. But let's take that out of the scenario. Let's assume this man is just adaptable. I feel that this is probably one of the saddest Disney scenes that's animated. I I shed some tears, you know, as she was singing and uh as she was driving and singing and talking about, you know, how they found each other and you know how she had to let him go. Not because, you know, he you know she didn't love him, but because she

Widow Tweed’s Impossible Goodbye

SPEAKER_07 32:20

loved him so much, she was like, I have to protect you in some way, and I know that, you know, being right next door to this maniac isn't going to, you know, put you in the best spot. So she kind of sacrifices her own happiness because she's lonely. I assume her name is Widow because her husband is dead or died at this point. So she kind of sacrificed her own happiness for his survival. As a kid, I think you just see a woman dropping off a fox. You're like, what the hell? But as an adult, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you see somebody like making an impossible decision. And of course, it took me back to my own possible impossible decision with my own dog who is suffering right now with from kidney disease and stuff. And like I'm like, what's what you know, what do you do here? Like, what is too much? When you know, it's it's sad. Like, because Todd is looking up at her like, oh, we're we're going for a ride?

SPEAKER_05 33:03

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 33:05

Happy as hell.

SPEAKER_04 33:06

She didn't even say anything to him, man.

SPEAKER_07 33:09

Yeah, I'm like, I and I thought about that. I was like, does he understand? Because why did she say something? Like, they never really like does she on does he understand her or not? I couldn't really tell.

SPEAKER_04 33:19

I thought he did.

SPEAKER_07 33:21

I thought so too, but she didn't say anything. She just picked him up. Anything put him on a put him on a he was sleeping, picked him up, put him on the on a in a car. He's like, Oh, we go for a ride. Man look happy as hell. He was just Oh my god, look at this, look at that. And that was just that's a tough scene for me.

SPEAKER_04 33:39

That reminds me when I did something similar to my ferret. I had a ferret in college.

SPEAKER_03 33:46

You let your ferret go? I considered it.

SPEAKER_04 33:51

We said we took him to a shelter, though.

SPEAKER_03 33:53

Oh, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:55

And then, like, because me and my roommate, we had this uh ferret. It was it was an It was an albino ferret. His name was Malcolm Jamal Warner X.

SPEAKER_07 34:06

That's the blackest, blackety black name I've ever fucking heard of.

SPEAKER_04 34:09

He was super white with these red devilish eyes. He was he may have been a spot of the devil. Jordan fucking pussed out and didn't want to go, so I had to be the one to take Malcolm to to the to the pound, to the shelter. And we got our friend, she came, picked me up, and Malcolm was the fucking sweetest he had ever been in all freaking, I don't know, we had him for like three to six months. I can't remember how long we had him. He was so sweet in my lap, just kind of curled up, just like, hey, what's up? I was like, I'm about to give you away forever, dawg. What? It was a dumb friends league. I don't think they killed animals there, right?

SPEAKER_07 34:48

Fuck, I don't know. Probably not. But I mean it has been 20 years.

SPEAKER_04 34:52

Well, now, but rest in peace, Malcolm. Shout out to Malcolm.

SPEAKER_07 34:56

We get the absolute, the saddest song maybe ever. Goodbye may seem forever, which is just uh it just it just pulls at the heartstrings. You you you gotta be made of stone to not feel it.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 35:09

But I don't know. I don't know. That one is a hard one. Do you keep him and keep him like it's especially contained, which was her concern. She's like, well, he doesn't get to like play and be himself, or do you like let him go in a in a forest, which is a reserve which should have protected him. Uh but Amos didn't give a shit. So that's a different story.

SPEAKER_04 35:28

I would have kept him and just strapped up if Amos came towards my property and was putting him down.

SPEAKER_07 35:34

This is true. I don't know why, because she obviously could handle a weapon. She's gonna be a big thing.

SPEAKER_04 35:38

Oh, she did, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 35:40

So I don't know why she didn't like yo, you cross my boundary, I will shoot because you're trespassing at this point.

SPEAKER_04 35:46

Yeah. So I don't know. But in the just looking at the s the options that we're given in the movie, keep him or drop him off. Boy. Man, I was keeping it, man. First of all, like it's probably because of this movie. I've I feel like I like grew up obsessed with foxes. I think foxes are so fucking cool, they're gorgeous. Just to be able to say I have a pet fox. I'm not fucking getting rid of that. He's not killing or hurting anyone. Fuck you, I'm keeping that thing. What would you have done?

SPEAKER_07 36:16

I think that's I probably would have kept it.

SPEAKER_04 36:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll have to fight, that's all. I mean, as far as we know, and we know this from the movie, but Todd didn't hurt anyone. He wasn't going out to the chickens or anything. So it's like, nah, man, no, in real life. So we probably would have had to get rid of his ass. Ain't no way you have a pet fox and he's just out here cooling eating fucking kibbles and bits. Okay, he's out here hunting at nighttime. So, but in this universe, nah, I was keeping him. I was keeping him 100%.

SPEAKER_03 36:54

Yeah, I was keeping him.

SPEAKER_07 36:56

And that brings you to another point. So Amos asshole, yes. But is he deserving of that title? We could talk about that.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

Okay a little bit.

SPEAKER_07 37:06

I think that from I mean, once he crosses into her land, that's a different story. But from his perspective, especially well, maybe the first or second interaction with them, when the when he was in the hen, the fox uh that was the first one, yeah. The the hen house are it looked like he was chasing the hens. I mean, it really did. It did. And you know, that's his livelihood or part of it. So, you know, I don't know where the stores are because this they're in the middle of a forest. I don't know what they're doing, but either way, that's part of it. So, in a way, you do have to like be like, all right, I mean, he is a hunter. Every time he sees this fox, it's on his property. Foxes typically eat chickens, and he has chickens, like you know, because you you're not gonna be like you're not gonna be like, oh, the fox is playing with my dog.

SPEAKER_04 37:58

That's so sweet. You're not gonna do that shit, you know? Yeah, like you're not thinking that at all. So, yeah, from that perspective, I just now for me it's a disrespect you show to Widow. That's a problem.

SPEAKER_07 38:14

Oh, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 38:15

He's a fucking psycho, he's there firing his shotgun at the back of her vehicle while she's driving. Like, what the hell? And then spill all her milk, talk about livelihood hood, right? She was probably gonna take that to the market to sell all that fucking fresh cow milk. Like, and he wasted it. And then I know, right? And then he pointed a gun at her. So Amos for me, Amos is an asshole because of one, his anger and rage and him directing that shit at Widow. That listen, Widow, right? I think I wrote this. She has to be one of the sweetest old ladies of all time. And for me, that first scene when we we yeah, we didn't mention this. That first scene when after Big Mama found Todd and they was like, all right, they they cooked up the scheme to get Widow outside. And when she came and she was like, the birds, stop the birds, you know, and she's like, Oh, what's gotten into them? And she moved the the blanket or whatever, and it's Todd, she drops it, she goes back. That to me was the most emotional part of the movie for me when she found Todd and just like immediately took him in. She was so goddamn sweet, and I don't know. I just that moment was very, very touching for me when she took him in, and I was like, all right, yeah, the movie's about to begin. This is Todd's safe, he's in a good home. This woman is is the best place, you know. So yeah, so Amos getting all up in her face shortly after that. Nah, man, Amos Amos gotta go. He's out of he's out of pocket.

SPEAKER_07 39:52

So in this reserve, we have Todd who's struggling in life. He doesn't know what the hell he's doing. He's been kept his entire life. He has the badger, a porcupine kind of takes after him a little bit. But then he he meets the sexy, sexy fox.

SPEAKER_04 40:08

I know. Why did it make Vixie so sexy? I don't know. It's a cartoon. Yeah, I guess. I was just like, yo, tone it down, animators.

SPEAKER_07 40:22

I think they're trying to be like distinct of like this is a this is a lady, this is a dude type thing, you know.

SPEAKER_04 40:29

I feel like they were trying to be like, hey, can we make a fox that doesn't want to fuck? I feel like that's what they were trying to do. It was way too much. It was way too much.

SPEAKER_02 40:37

It was way too much. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_04 40:40

Alright. Alright. Because like in Lady of the Trap, for example, you know, Lady's a female dog, and they didn't make Lady all like friggin', you know, jazzed up like that.

SPEAKER_07 40:52

I mean, you know, she had the natural light from the forest coming in, and you know, the birds are twerping.

SPEAKER_04 40:57

It was way too much.

SPEAKER_07 40:59

Okay, fine. It was way too much. So Mari didn't like it. That's fine. Anyways, he meets her, immediately falls in love, crashes out because he realized he's not really a real fox, to be honest. He's a pet dog. Alright, so they're doing their thing, and here comes Amos and Copper again. Amos decides that he's going to trespass on the reserve, even though it's supposed to be no hunting. And we have another chase which reaches the climax of provoking a grizzly bear attack. Before we get there, that with the grizzly bear attack, we already kind of touched on it, but Amos lined a little walkway to, I guess, some kind of water hole type thing with a bunch of bear traps. I was like, Yep, why the fuck would you do that?

SPEAKER_03 41:47

Yeah. Like I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 41:48

Who catches a fox like that? Like, what? But whatever.

SPEAKER_04 41:55

I guess that their reflexes aren't quick enough to like, you know. Or I don't know. There's they're so small, like they're gonna walk right past that shit. Like, as he did.

SPEAKER_07 42:05

Which he did. Yeah. And even when it snapped, the reflexes, he just jumped up. It's not a bear. So it's just like, okay, well, whatever. So yeah, that I felt that was ridiculous, but okay, he really he really was had a hard on for Todd. Like he really wanted his fucking fox.

SPEAKER_04 42:25

Visually, though, visually, it was effective because it made you feel that as a child at least, that Todd was in some danger. Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess shit. I guess it was a bit of foreshadowing for the actual fucking bear that shows up. I've never thought of that.

SPEAKER_07 42:42

Yeah, because why do you have so many traps? It must be bear country out there.

SPEAKER_04 42:46

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_07 42:47

It makes sense. Now, Vitsi does warn Todd. Don't go down there. Todd completely ignores her, even though she has some instincts because she's been living in a while her entire life compared to Todd. Shut up, woman. Yeah, he did. He said, You know nothing, woman. I know more than you, and I shall go.

SPEAKER_04 43:07

She said, You just got here two days ago. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_07 43:10

Yeah. I don't think he know where. Yeah, he knew nothing. He knew nothing about the forest. So they were chasing Sue. Everybody's just they're both. Now they're chasing both Todd and Vixie. They get into like a little foxhole. Copper's on one side. The farm Amos is on the other side. And Amos again has a hell of a hard on for this fox because he decides that he's gonna light the fucking forest. The foxhole on fire to try to get them out. But I'm like, this man almost

Is the Fox Worth It?

SPEAKER_07 43:40

burned down the whole reserve just for a fox.

SPEAKER_04 43:43

Hey. What's his name? Jack Albertson? He was locked in. He was locked in as Amos for this role. He just the the voice acting, and he was like, he's like, oh, we got him now, Copper. There's only one way out. I was like, God damn, dude, like Is this worth it? Like, is this worth it? This fox now, one, your dog isn't dead. And two, like, the fox isn't even on your or near your property anymore. You had to drive a ways out of there to go and find this thing. Like, I don't know, man. Like, Amos was a psycho. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_07 44:18

He was fixated. He was like, I'm gonna get you. And he he tried. Luckily, Todd got brave and decided that he's gonna push past the burning bush. Which was interesting. I don't know how he didn't, you know, catch on fire as well, but okay, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 44:35

Hey.

SPEAKER_07 44:36

Yeah, I don't know. This is where we get Todd, Todd the man shows up, you know. Copper is on their their their their their trailer. Todd's like the f no, that's my girl.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 44:49

That's my that's my growl. I thought that was pretty good. Anyway, that was that was a bit too much.

SPEAKER_04 44:54

She's a fox, not a freaking bear. Like, what the hell?

SPEAKER_07 44:58

Hey, when you protect your girl, you turned into a different animal.

SPEAKER_04 45:03

Yep, that that is true. That is true.

SPEAKER_07 45:06

There you go. Uh in the midst of this, a freaking demonic bear shows up. And actually Amos is currently trapped in one of his bear traps, which I guess, you know. Got him.

SPEAKER_05 45:23

Got him, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_07 45:26

He's currently trapped. So the bear comes down, tries to get Amos. Copper's like, oh hell no. So he tries to attack the bear, bites him a couple times, scratches him a couple times. Bear's like, what the fuck? Get off me. Knocks Copper down. Todd, who's actually free and clear at this point, sees it from atop the mountain thing he's on for some reason. And decides, oh, not my boy. And he runs down and saves Copper and Amos by distracting the bear, biting him, finding him, whatever. The bear is wild as hell. Does the bear not speak English? Like, why is it not talking? Like, what does it do?

SPEAKER_04 46:01

Oh no. I that bear is fucking crazy. He's either on drugs or he has syphilis. Rain is fucking crazy. Jesus Christ. Rabbi's is better. I went to syphilis. Rabbi's. Syphilis. Rabies. That's what we wanted. Rabies. I apologize.

SPEAKER_05 46:20

Look at the fucking bear syphilis. Oh my god. Okay. We're gonna go back to rabies.

SPEAKER_04 46:27

I apologize. Okay. Sorry, everyone.

SPEAKER_07 46:30

The bear is crazy either way. And uh starts wilding out. They're on they're on this little ass thin branch, and you know, homeboy decides to hit it and they all fall down. I don't I guess the bear dies. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 46:47

Yeah, it drowns to his death. I guess it just falls either falls to his death or drowns. I don't know. We just never see that bear again. Or maybe the bear was like, you know what? Fuck this. This is not worth it. Yes.

SPEAKER_07 46:58

That's not how animals are. They're not

Bear Fight And The Choice To Spare

SPEAKER_07 47:00

that fixated. Like, if you're too hard, they're like, oh, I'm just gonna stop away.

SPEAKER_04 47:03

Because all animals care about is one acquiring energy, conserving energy, reproducing. That's really it. Right. And having to like chase these smaller, lighter animals up and down the place just in the hopes to try and kill them. A bear would have given up long time. Like, you know what? It's not worth it. Like, fuck this. Like, yeah. Yeah, so the bear gets there. I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 47:30

The bear disappears mysteriously, which is fine. Todd mysteriously also survives this fall, but he's a little injured. I mean, it was a hell of a fall. So as soon as he looks up, Amos is there with his gun.

SPEAKER_04 47:44

Was it weren't they on top of the cliff that Amos like run? He's so horny for this fucking fox. He ran down with it. Because his leg is busted. He was in the fucking bear trap. Not busted because he had his boot, but he's limping. So he rushed down there just to put a gun in his fox's face after all of that. Listen to me, man. If I'm on a relentless pursuit for something, anything, and it nearly gets me killed, I'm done. I'm done. I would stop to reflect and be like, huh. Why are we even out here? What's the point of the thing? You gotta charge that.

SPEAKER_07 48:17

You gotta charge it. You gotta charge it at a certain point. There's a level. Like a crazed bear, being eye to eye with a crazed bear is that level of like, you know what? Let me just go home. This is this is a good time for me to go home.

SPEAKER_04 48:29

And then you survive because your dog, and then that same fox you were hunting comes. Listen, listen. Amos has some problems. I will say this though, I have in my notes, Copper's a good dog. Alright. Copper's a man. Copper could have booked it out of there, and Copper was like, nah, you're not taking my guy. And Copper stood up to this bear and fought this thing off as best as he could. That was good shit. That was good.

SPEAKER_07 49:01

And we see Todd, I'm sorry, we see Copper step in again. So again, Todd looks up, barreled, staring down the barrel of a shotgun. And Copper walks over slowly and you know sits down in front of him and says, you know, nah, not my guy. He just saves us. Like, let it go. Let it go, old man. Come on now.

SPEAKER_04 49:20

Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on.

unknown 49:24

No, come on.

SPEAKER_07 49:26

I guess he sees the, you know, he says, hey, Copper move, Copper move. And you know, he's like, no, I'm just gonna stand here. Amos finally understand that Todd saves his life and decides to spare Todd. Lowers his rifle and just leaves. Todd and Copper kind of look at each other one more time and smile. And then Yeah. So we we go into one more theme here, which is the ending isn't necessarily like your typical happy. Usually at the end, you know, the friends get together or or or the relationship, you know, survives or whatever, but it's not, it's a peaceful ending, you know, but there's a difference. Like Todd and Copper, they don't, you know, they're not best friends anymore. Todd is still a fox, Copper is still a dog, they don't run off together, they don't fix everything, they just choose not to kill each other, which is cool.

SPEAKER_04 50:21

Yeah, but yeah. I agree with you.

SPEAKER_07 50:25

Did you like that ending? Did you prefer being like best friends after that?

SPEAKER_04 50:29

Or no, I think the ending is perfectly fine. It's it's realistic. Not too realistic to make you all sad and stuff, I guess. But as a child, so Malachi thinks that they're still friends based on that ending. Right? Malachi's like, no, they're still friends. He he believes that they're still friends. Which I I wonder if that's what most children think, or if not. I feel like I thought that as a kid that, oh yeah, this they're still cool, you know. And I guess they are cool, but they're not kicking it like that anymore, right? Right, right, uh-huh. Yeah, so I I I think the ending, I think the ending is fine. I don't have any problems with the ending. I I don't think I I think it would have been a little unreal too too much happened. Like they all almost died, you know, because it is bare and because it is unrelenting pursuit and all this stuff. So like it would have been way more jarring if after all the almost as jarring as as Widow wrapping up Ibis's foot, but if everybody was just all Kumbaya, just like playing in a yard and stuff hanging out, it'd have been so unreal. It would have, it would have, I think it would have undone the whole movie if they did it like that. Okay. So I'm good. What do you feel otherwise, or what did you think?

SPEAKER_07 51:47

I think that I agree. I was a k when I was a kid, I probably thought that they were like friends, but yeah, now they just like now you understand that they just live, you know, where they're not hurting each other. I mean, I assume maybe Todd will pop by every once in a while. But he has his own family now or or situation in the forest, you know, it's okay. Like they might grab they might grab a beer every once in a while, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:12

Like if he if he pops over to visit widow, like I don't think it's it's not on site anymore, right? Like the that energy isn't there, but it's like, oh hey Todd, hey copper, how you been? Oh yeah, yeah, you know, the wife is good and da da da. Alright, well good. We should catch up sometime, and then it never fucking do.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

You know, because yeah, I think I think that's where they're at.

SPEAKER_04 52:31

They have like an adult relationship now. So yeah.

SPEAKER_07 52:35

Alright. Alright, bro. Anything else?

SPEAKER_04 52:39

Nah, that that was everything I had for that. Still a great watch, still a great watch, still a fun movie. Even even, you know, with me poking fun at it and all that stuff. Like, I I still think this is a great movie. I think it's awesome, it's fun. And it's timeless.

SPEAKER_07 52:54

Yeah. I think it's one of the one of the most underrated films. Like, you don't really hear about it, but it's like so good.

SPEAKER_04 53:00

No, you don't, yeah. But if if you come across someone who's seen it, they're like, oh yeah, Fox and the Hound, you know?

unknown 53:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:08

Um, but outside of that, yeah. I don't know. Alright, let's rate this thing. Alright. For any newcomers, we rate our movies.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

Alright.

SPEAKER_03 53:25

Oh god. I don't know why it came out that way.

SPEAKER_04 53:29

Um

Ratings Breakdown And Why It Holds Up

SPEAKER_04 53:32

For any newcomers, we rate our movies based on five categories plot and writing, acting, casting, production, cinematography, music and sound, and cultural impact. Everything is rated on a scale of one to ten.

SPEAKER_03 53:47

Jill? Plot and writing? What you got?

SPEAKER_07 53:52

Alright. For plot and writing, I mean it's a simple story, but again, a lot of surprisingly mature themes that I really didn't understand till now, so I give it a solid seven.

SPEAKER_04 54:05

Nice. I gave it an it. Always just like a little higher on these things than you. It's funny. But we're never like far away.

SPEAKER_07 54:13

Which I always I always view that as like it's the same damn thing, to be honest. Yeah, correct. It's like whatever.

SPEAKER_04 54:19

It's not that far away. Yeah, isn't it?

SPEAKER_07 54:21

Now if I'm like two and you're like ten, now we have a different conversation.

SPEAKER_04 54:24

Whoa, yeah. Um one of these days. Acting and casting, what do you have?

SPEAKER_03 54:31

I mean, it's always hard to do voice, you know?

SPEAKER_07 54:37

Like Okay. To me, I don't know. Like I think they did alright. I mean, you know.

SPEAKER_04 54:44

Oh, so okay, so you you don't re I don't want to say value, that's not right, but yeah, you don't value voice actors as much as if you're watching a live act action acting.

SPEAKER_07 54:56

Um I don't yeah, I don't want to say nothing. I know value is tough.

SPEAKER_04 54:59

I can't find a better lack of a thing.

SPEAKER_07 55:02

Yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of um value and I think expertise and talent that goes into voice acting. But I still do find it a little bit more difficult to judge versus like seeing a character, not only their voice, but their facial expressions and all that stuff. I mean they tried to put it across with like the the animation, but you know, so I give it a five.

SPEAKER_04 55:26

A five. Okay. I actually have a seven on that one.

SPEAKER_07 55:30

Um, yeah, I I I like almost all the acting. I like I like um Alberton a lot for James. I like his video.

SPEAKER_04 55:40

I think he crushed it. Um I'll tell you who all I really enjoyed. Uh Pearl Bailey crushed it, Pearl Bailey as Big Mama, Janet Nolan as widow tweed was really good. And Kurt Russell as Copper was fine. He didn't do a lot, he didn't have a lot of lines. I think Corey Feldman as young Copper and Keith Mitchell as young Todd did really well. Okay, I think Mickey Rooney was kind of meh. Adult Todd, I wasn't really feeling some of his delivery or just some of his stuff, to be honest. And uh which is I know he's his vet and he's his great. He was 60 years old when this movie came out, which was they had no one else. They were just using, I mean, I I don't know. It was like the old boys club, you know, they're using like they're recycling, because even like old boy who was boomer, that's who voices Tigger for the Winnie the Pooh movies, you know, who did a good job, but I'm they're just like recycling people and stuff, you know. They're not really going out there and finding like talented people outside of their network often at this time. So, anyway, so I have it at a seven though, despite me not really caring for Mickey Rooney's performance. It wasn't bad, it was just I thought it was worse than all the others, and I thought the young versions was a little more impactful for me. But regardless, I have a seven. I have a seven.

SPEAKER_07 56:59

Yeah. As soon as Pearl Bailey started talking, I thought, well, that's a black lady.

SPEAKER_04 57:03

Oh yeah. I mean, big mama, it had better be a black lady, right? Nah, it couldn't. It couldn't. Alright, so production, cinematography, and visuals. What do you have there?

SPEAKER_03 57:19

I it's a strong eight for me.

unknown 57:22

Strong.

SPEAKER_07 57:23

Nice. Yeah, I thought it did very well. The sequence was nice and intense. The bear attack was good. Like everything that I I think they did a great job telling the story through their animation and cinematography, so I give it an eight.

SPEAKER_04 57:38

Nice. I actually have a seven. I think I had an eight earlier, and I I think I switched it. Not for any real reason in in particular. It's just I I thought I was rated a little too high, but I I I thought all the artwork, the animation, I thought it was gorgeous, it was beautiful stuff. It's hand-drawn, like fine, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Like that, and that hand-drawn stuff is really good when it's done well. So I I gave it a seven, but I do think it's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 58:07

It's not on the level I'm sorry. Sorry. It's not on the level of the Renaissance films, because but it's also that's more newer where you have different technologies.

SPEAKER_04 58:16

So correct, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 58:19

Yeah, I think for the time I'll give it an eight. I'm st I'm gonna stick with the eight.

SPEAKER_04 58:22

Yeah. Nice. Music and sound. What do you have for that?

SPEAKER_07 58:26

Music and sound. I I love the music throughout the whole movie, not just like the actual songs, but the everything was just like. Oh, yeah, the score, the film score is just completely like the only thing is, even though I love the songs, like I couldn't sing along.

SPEAKER_04 58:46

I couldn't remember like any of the lyrics, and I'm like, Yeah, only the first one were the best of friends. I was able to kind of like sing along a little bit with that one. It was coming back to me at time, but the rest of them, no, it's not as memorable.

SPEAKER_07 58:59

Like Akuna Matara, like you know, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So for that, I'll give it an eight, just because of the sing-along quality is a little bit lackluster for me.

SPEAKER_04 59:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 59:11

But yeah, otherwise, uh you know, once you hear it, the music, I love it. But yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:17

Nice. I I also have an eight for that. Okay. Cultural impact. Where did you land with that one? Our favorite category.

SPEAKER_07 59:29

Yeah, so I think I think you hit the nail on the head earlier when you said once you talk to somebody who's seen it, they're like, oh yeah, for sure. But I don't think it has the same reach as like the Lion Kings, the Beat and the Beast. They even even the other movies around that time, the aristocrats, like Oh yeah. Um, so I gave it five.

SPEAKER_04 59:50

Oh god. That's exactly where I landed. I have a five as well. Yeah. Same, same reasons, same reasons. Is I love the movie near and dear to my heart, but I don't think most people feel that way. And even when I did research on it, it's not like the Fox and the Hound revolutionalized anything or had any huge impact financially or culturally or or I mean commercially. So I put it as a five middle of the road.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:19

In fact, I think five is kind of high for that. It might be five is my own love, it might be, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:25

Because I was I was considering, I was just gonna say I was considering giving it a three.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:32

Yeah, I'm gonna cut that to a three on that, actually.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:35

Uh because five, because for example, we give close encounters, which we did not care for the movie, but we cannot argue that it wasn't very impactful. We gave that a five.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:46

So did Fox and the Hound have the same impact as Close Encounters of the Third Kind?

SPEAKER_07 1:00:50

Not even close.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:51

So yeah. Even though we love this movie and we think it's better.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:55

Oh, no, I say it's better. We enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:59

Yeah. I I I have to come down to a three.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:01

I think I'll be nice with the five. I'll do the same. I'll do the same. So um that puts us, that puts you at a 6.2, and I'm at a 6.6. Awesome. Well, that will do it for our Real Talk and Banter on the Fox and the Hound. To connect with us, to give us some feedback, or just say hello, email us at real talkbanter at gmail.com. That's R-E-E-L Talkbanter at gmail.com.

Malachi’s Kid Review And Favorite Parts

SPEAKER_04 1:01:30

Thanks for listening. Hello and welcome to the Real Talk and Banter Podcast, the movie podcast where we discuss and review films that are at least a decade old. I'm Omari Williams, and today I have a special guest for everyone. Go ahead and introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:48

Malachi Williams.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:50

Malachi Williams is here to join. We just now watched. What do we watch just now?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

The Fox and the Hound.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:00

Very good. Yep. The Fox and the Hound. So just doing a little something different here. I just want to capture because it is a children's movie, so I decide, well, let's have a child watch it and see what he thinks. So this is all about you, Malachi. We just want to hear what you think about the movie. Just just give us your thoughts. So what did you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:21

I think it was good.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:23

Mm-hmm. I l I liked how the fox w was like howed the bear after I mean how tound after the bear attacked.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:38

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:38

But I did not exp I I I didn't expect him to help him after he attacked, but then they held their treadle.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:47

That was that was pretty good. Um it's it's what would you say this movie was about?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:52

I would say it's about friendship.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:55

I agree. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:58

And friends, and and never, and like never being not a friend and not be friend.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:04

Yeah, it's definitely a it's a great, the perfect movie about friendship for sure. The movie starts off where you have these two different animals, you know, becoming friends. It's a very small, you know, as a pup and a kit. I think baby foxes are called kits.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:21

Wait, baby foxes are called pups.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:24

Baby foxes are called pups? Are you sure?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:26

Yes, yes, they are, they are. I I remember them saying pups. Baby foxes are pups.

unknown 1:03:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:34

They are. We're both correct. They're called kits, cubs, or pups. So we're both right. See, look at that. Alright. Corrected me on my own show, but it's okay. You're right. Do you have any other thoughts about the movie that you want to share? Things you liked, things you didn't like.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

I didn't really like when the mm when he got adopted to the foilist and the point because I didn't like the grouchy creature that told him to get out of my apartment because he didn't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:11

Yeah. So that was a badger. Uh his name is Mr. Digger. Badgers are actually pretty aggressive animals, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

I know because the only thing they do is rob, steal, and they never want to show.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:24

Is that what badgers do? Yes. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:27

I learned that from Artonauts.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:29

Okay. That's a good source.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:31

And why claps. You never watched it.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:36

Oh, excuse me. Okay, alright. Anything else you did not like about the movie?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:40

I didn't like the lectur I didn't like when the hunter surprised him because he surprised me too.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:45

Which part was that?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

The part where he put all that all the traps.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:51

Oh, yeah. The bear traps? Yeah, yeah, the bear traps. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. He just started shooting after him.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:56

Well when they got file.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:58

Oh yeah, he did set the he set the little foxhole on on fire.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:02

Imagine if somebody set our house on fire. Oh kill them. Oh my gosh. What? No.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:07

Well, they're trying that that means they're trying to kill us.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:10

Okay, but yeah, but violence and specifically murder is not the answer. Okay?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:21

So let's have a different response then. Okay?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:24

Any final words you have on the movie?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:27

But my most favorite part was what he the times what they call the owl Big Mama.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:33

Mm-hmm. You like Big Mama? Yeah. She's pretty cool. She's pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:36

And when and when they get and when the fox got dotted.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:42

Yes, that was very nice when when that lady took in the fox.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:46

But the the saddest part was when when he she left him in the forest. That was the saddest.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:53

That was pretty sad. Yeah. I wish she didn't have to do that. But you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:57

He's gonna keep it forever.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:59

Well, nah. I mean, the neighbor dude was hunting him down.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:03

Oh yeah, that was for his safety, I think.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:06

Would you tell your friends to watch this movie?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:11

I didn't like it, but I just hope they don't get too scared about him.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:18

Well, you think your friends would be scared?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:19

Mm-hmm. About about the shunto shooting?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:23

Yeah. That's a bit much, huh? Yeah. Okay. What would you if you had to give the the movie a rating, a number from one to ten, ten being the best, one being the worst, what number would you give the movie?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:35

I'll give it a ten out of ten.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:37

You give it a ten out of ten? Yeah. So you really liked it then? Because ten means that's like the best movie you've seen.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:45

Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:46

But if I could go to a thousand. You can't go to a thousand. I wish I can.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:51

Well, you can't. Okay, so it's a ten.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:54

Okay. Alright.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:55

As high as I could go, that level plus that level.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:58

Yes. As high as you could go. Alright. Well, you heard it here first. You got some real talk, some kid talk, some child talk, Malachi talk. We'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:08

Uh, you could just call it Malachi talk. Malachi talk? Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:12

Alright. Well, you heard it here first with Malachi. Some um advanter between him and his dad. On the movie The Fox and the Howard, you can do it.